Patrick Adams  00:00

Hello, and welcome to the Lean solutions podcast. My guest today is Adam Lawrence, Adam is actually a returning guest, he was with us back in season one, episode 84, where we dove into his book, The Wheel of sustainability, and we talked kind of general about the wheel of sustainability. Today, I’m hoping to dive into one of the spokes per se on the wheel itself. But Adam is the managing partner of process improvement partners LLC, he has 30 plus years of experience in process improvement activities targeted at manufacturing and business processes. He’s facilitated 300, plus Kaizen events in multiple industries around the world. Adam aligns with leadership, he engages teams, he creates sustainable results. And as I mentioned, he is the author of the book, The Wheel of sustainability. So welcome back to the show, Adam.

Adam Lawrence  01:25

Well, it’s great to be here, Patrick, thanks for inviting me back. I appreciate that.

Patrick Adams  01:30

You bet. Well, the last time that we were together, we told our listeners that we were going to get back together and we were going to dive into maybe one of the areas within the wheel of sustainability. And so I’m glad that we were able to make this happen, get your back on the show and, and dive in here. So which element of the wheel of sustainability? Do you find the most challenging for your Kaizen teams to engage? And then let’s talk about why and maybe kind of dive in there?

Adam Lawrence  01:58

Sure. Great, great question, of course. So for my team’s clear benefits, which is, if you walk your way around the wheel, it’s at six o’clock, right? So clear benefits, is the element that my teams find to be maybe the most challenging during the Kaizen Event cycle.

Patrick Adams  02:16

So explain, before we talk about why what what are clear benefits, give us an actually maybe Adam, for those that are listening that maybe didn’t hear episode 84 haven’t read your book, maybe before we dive into clear benefits can you get? Can you just kind of walk us around the wheel and give us kind of an overview and then tell us a little bit more about clear benefits and what that means. Okay, sure. Well,

Adam Lawrence  02:38

thanks for that. So think about a wagon wheel with eight spokes and a central hub. So the central hub is leadership commitment. So basically, it’s the thing that holds everything together. And then so we’re thinking about the wheel as it relates to a change that a team is making or an improvement, and how have all these elements come together to help sustain that change. So quickly. The first spoke at 12 o’clock and real is called notification. So what we’re doing is we’re explaining to people what the change is and why it matters. So why is more important than what of course, the next spoke is called training and review. So this is where instead of in a group setting, we’re going to work with individuals one on one, we’re going to do some tell, show and do so we’re going to kind of give them a safe space to learn about it and demonstrate their knowledge or ask good questions without the stress of having other people viewing them. So modeled after twi but quite a bit simpler than that. The next spoke is visible evidence. So the idea here is we can tell if the change is occurring, and being properly followed from a distance away. If it is, thank the person congratulate them. If it isn’t, coach, the person helped the person. The next one, I call all tools available. So this means that everybody has what they need to accomplish the change in a simple, safe fashion. So instead of one wrench that I have to go find, if I have three locations that I need the wrench, then I’m I’m loading the wrench at those three locations. So everybody has what they need, where they need it. The next spoke is clear benefits, which we’re going to dive deeper. But the idea being that the person that is going to have to apply the change sees it as personally beneficial to them. So they it’s kind of what we used to call what’s in it for me, but they see it, they internalize it, they they value it. If they don’t value it, they’re not going to do it. So this is it’s good to know that. The next is learn audits, meaning that the person doing the work checks the work that they’re doing with great frequency. And then as we go up levels, people are checking with less frequency, but what we’re doing is we’re reinforcing that message or that change. The next spoke is accountability. So this is more about leadership accountability. So we do assume, maybe rightly or wrongly, It’ll people are accountable to their work. But what we’re saying is leaders are accountable. If they see somebody not following the new standard that they step in, and they help, and they coach, they don’t just walk by. And if they see him doing it properly, they’re reinforcing it and thanking people. The last spoke is I call recognition. So the idea being that cause and effect, we did something and something good happened because of it, if we just let it happen, people won’t see that cause and effect. So we tell stories, we’re trying to help people see the work that they did actually mattered. So all those elements put together are the wheel of sustainability. And it’s not to say that this is perfect, but I feel like it gives people a better chance to sustain the changes that they’re making.

Patrick Adams  05:44

Yeah, and I found that that sustainability is normally one of the areas that many teams struggle with, right? You know, think about five s, for example, you know, a lot of teams do really well, at the first, you know, two or three S’s and when you get into, you know, the last few there, that’s where they really start to struggle is how do we sustain this, and then your teams get into this mode of that those flavor of the month things where they keep trying new things every month, but there’s no sustainability. So to your point, all of those elements together that you’ve laid out, give teams, maybe not a, you know, maybe not a guarantee, but they definitely put them in a place where they have a better chance at sustaining some of the gains. Would you agree?

Adam Lawrence  06:29

Yeah, I totally believe that. Yeah, I know, there’s there’s no silver bullet, somebody asked me for that last month, if there truly isn’t, but the fact that you’re doing these, these elements you’re putting the systems in, and you have that clear leadership commitment in the center, gives you a better chance. So there are no guarantees in this life. So I just say this gives you, like you said a better chance to to sustain.

Patrick Adams  06:51

Right, right. So let’s go back to that element that you mentioned, that was the challenge. And it was clear benefits. Why? Why is that a challenge for some of your Kaizen teams.

Adam Lawrence  07:05

So here’s what happens. You bring a team together, and they’re working on something, and they’re making breakthroughs, and they’re really excited about it. So in the room, you know, they know the journey they went through to get there. But outside of the room, no one knows what they were thinking. And so what happens is, if you just look at the change on the surface, it really doesn’t look that interesting, or breakthrough or amazing, until you see it in action. So to have somebody look at your idea, and this actually happened in November, a group had come up with what I thought was an absolutely brilliant idea. They show it to a colleague, and the first thing he said was, well, that’s stupid. And then like that can be very deflating, of course. So, all right, why do you think it’s stupid? Well, it’s not doing anything. Okay. Well, we’ve been trying it, try it to the person tries. It’s okay, I take it back. That’s not stupid. That’s brilliant. Okay, fantastic. But human, you know, typical human reaction to any change is expect the worst and hope for the best. Right? So you’re gonna get that kind of feedback. So why is this challenging? It’s challenging, because it’s no fun to have somebody say your idea is stupid, right? And it’s not fun to find out, somebody doesn’t agree with you. So what I’m doing with my teams, I wait, I don’t wait until the idea is fully formed. I want them talking and sharing and, and getting feedback very early in the process when they’re 32% confident that it’s going to work right? Early, early, early, because you’re going to find out so many things. And what we’re trying to do is engage more people, get their feedback, get them to feel like they were part of it, as well as maybe uncover some flaws in your idea, which we’ve done many times. Right. So that is challenging, because it’s no fun to be told that you’re wrong. And, you know, if they were on the other side of it, they might be saying the exact same thing.

Patrick Adams  09:04

Right? Yeah, that I would agree with that for sure. So I can see where that would be a challenge. And you just, you just hit on a couple areas that you kind of helped coach them through that or guide them, you know, through some of those challenges, but any other ways that you help your Kaizen teams kind of deal with, with this element of of clear benefits, any other kind of, you know, special advice that you might have for

Adam Lawrence  09:29

for some of our listeners? So absolutely. So first of all, I can give some examples of things that have happened. One thing we do is I actually roleplay the wheel with my teams now. So I let somebody pretend they’re the new worker, that is having the change. Let’s not call it thrust upon them. But let’s be honest, sometimes we don’t do it in the best way. So we actually roleplay so I’m the person introducing the change, okay, in their process, and they get to be that new or occur, and they get to challenge me so I can kind of role play with them. So where does it help them? It helps them by seeing the real, the reality of what the conversation might look like. The other thing is I’m trying to teach them messaging. So knowing why is so much more important than knowing what? Okay, so if we can get the messaging about, okay, you did this thing? Why did you do it? How’s it going to help me? Why would I care? If you can truly answer that, then it makes life a lot easier. Now, that’s one that’s one side of it. The other thing I’ve had to be is sometimes the person that diffuses. So we were in a changeover process, we wanted to try something out with the crew that had not seen anything. One of my team members comes in the room looks kind of sheepishly at me and says, I can’t get Tony, I’m making the name have to even listen to the idea. Okay. Can you help me? She says, Well, sure. Now I’ve done years and years of floor working, manufacturing, distribution, you name it. So I’ve been yelled at by the best of them. So that’s okay. So I go out there. And Tony is beet red, he is angry. What’s up, Tony, you guys aren’t even listening to us. You’re trying to do this thing to us and this and that. And I said, Okay, now hold on a sec. Alice was telling you that this is just a test, we just want to see what happens. We have no idea what’s going to happen. We need you to try it and let us know. But you’re not listening to us. We would never do it this way. Well, of course, I wasn’t nearly as level headed as I am with you at the moment. So I escalated a little bit. Tony, why are you not listening to us, we’re just trying to find out, we need your input. So this thing got a little ugly as a judge, but my factory experience kicked in. And I finally realized Tony was not gonna listen anything she or I had to say until I said, be telling me that you’re unwilling to try this new thing for the benefit of hopefully you and your team. And what he realized was, I was asking him, if he was going to be insubordinate, which is a bad thing in any facility. Sure, he quickly backtracked, and said, Okay, I just want to make sure that our voices are heard. Okay, that’s fine. So that was good, everything de escalated, they tried the thing out, and we did a feedback session following it. And he was one of the first to speak up and he started to say, I love how you did that. And I love how you did that. And, and I, I tapped him on the shoulder. I said, Are you Tony? Or are you his twin? Who are you? So you were able to kind of turn it into something fun. But it’s the reality of, of course, he thought our his interests were not being listened to. Because why would he that was just standard human nature. So I’m just trying to prepare them for that. But but if they can understand if they can de escalate, getting to why, why would you do this? Because we believe you’re going to be able to do it in an easier, safer fashion. Let me show you, oh, if they’re willing to do that, now they can now they can engage together? And and, you know, expose weaknesses or strengthen the improvements? And we’ve done that many times as well.

Patrick Adams  13:21

Yeah, no, that’s great. And I love the idea of it being an experiment, like we’re going to try this, it takes the weight off of, you know, team members that feel like oh, my gosh, they’re changing everything on me, I don’t want to go that direction. Like, listen, we can put it back the same way that it was when we started, we just want to try this and see how it goes. And then I want you to tell me the things that you don’t like about it, I want to hear those things. And I want to hear if there’s anything that you do like about it. So I love that that you brought that up. I just had an individual similar to Tony a few weeks ago, who everything that we talked about, she said, you know, no, we’ve already we’ve already tried that this is this is this is the way we do it. You know, we I don’t want to change anything. I don’t want to this is it. And the moment that I asked her the question, similar to the question you mentioned about Tony, I asked her the question, Are you saying that you’ve figured it all out? Like there’s nothing more you can do to improve? Like in a respectful way, right. But are you saying you you’ve found perfection, like you guys have figured and immediately she kind of backtracked a bit and was like, Well, no, I mean, there’s there’s always ways to improve. Or, you know, okay, well, let’s, let’s experiment. Let’s see if we can find those other ways, you know, and sometimes that just opens them up

Adam Lawrence  14:45

a little bit. Right. That’s good. That’s good. Yeah. And I will tell you that there have been times that we’ve exposed major weakness in our, you know, our improvements. One time one of my team members came back and said, Oh, my goodness, we must I’ll be right handed in this room. And I said, Okay, why is that? Well, somebody took our thing and said, Well, I’m a lefty, I can’t make this work. And fantastic that they found that out before it was too late. Right. And we were easy. It was easily fixed. And luckily, before the final implementation, right, because, because that would have, of course, brought back that issue of USC, no one’s listening to us. I mean, it gives you some grace, when you at least talk to folks and give them a chance to weigh in and even take some of their anger. They go through their five stages of grief, right? Change takes us all through our little five stages of grief. And Tony was in anger quite a long time. But finally got to not beyond acceptance. He loved it. So that was pretty cool.

Patrick Adams  15:50

Yeah, that’s great. Good, good story. I love it. Well, Adam, what would you say when it comes to clear benefits? You know, what are you trying to accomplish with this particular element during a Kaizen event? Like what is? What’s the end result of deploying this element of clear benefits into the team?

Adam Lawrence  16:11

Right. So there’s a couple key goals to this one is certainly to get feedback and engagement beyond the team that is so married to their idea, right? So we’re trying to open up their eyes and get the rest of the organization, you won’t get everybody but you get more. It also then can expose either weaknesses or reinforce the strengths. But in the end, what clear benefits is trying to do is when no one’s looking, does the person follow the new standard. So if they’ve internalized it, if they believe it helps them personally, then odds are they’re going to do it. So we have to test that we have to get real life testing with colleagues, people that are going to do the work, people that have no vested interest in the change until it’s introduced to them. You’ve got to see it because people, we don’t micromanage. We don’t want to micromanage we want people to want to do the thing that we believe will be safer, and better for them, and better for the customer. Right? But in the end at 2am, and no one’s watching Joe or Mary are going to do what Joe or Mary wants to do. And hopefully what they’ll want to do is the new standard.

Patrick Adams  18:19

That’s right. Good. Yeah, like that. And what about specific stories around this element? Obviously, you gave us the the one story of Tony, any other stories of, you know, maybe other problems that you’ve come in with when you know, maybe you’re doing a Kaizen event, or maybe you’re working with a client and you know, any kind of improvements are happening? How do you use clear benefits to avert or avoid some of those problems?

Adam Lawrence  18:54

So a great question. So it’s brings to mind something that happened middle last year. So working for our furniture retailer in South Central Florida. The area we were working on was reducing parts or replacement parts, right? So there are folks, they unbox every piece of furniture before it goes on the truck, they they inspect it, they make sure it’s okay, they assemble sometimes parts are missing parts get lost, etcetera. So there’s there was a parts area that was it’s kind of nice to say it was a disaster for many years of neglect, and there was a couple gentlemen working in that area that just were fighting the chaos. And it looked like there were piles of stuff dead bodies could have been hidden underneath the piles, I mean, just just bad situation. So one of the two gentlemen that run that area, this was not truly the focus of the Kaizen but the area where the parts live. He was on the team and very early in the Kaizen and he said, I don’t see how we’re going to be able to solve this problem this week. I don’t I don’t see it, you know, I’m not sure I It shouldn’t be on this team. We’re like, Hey, man, we’re glad you’re here. So in the middle of the Kaizen, we had identified three projects to work on. And one of them was essentially five s in his area, right, which made a lot of sense. But we were going to do that as a later Kaizen later in the year because it was kind of a large area. And it looked like a total disaster. So a full team of 12, may be or six or something, three of my folks on the team decide they’re going to take it on, right. And he’s not even the guy that kind of runs, the area wasn’t even part of it. So anyway, middle of all this, they’ve taken out 16, rolling dumpsters of dead stuff. And all of a sudden, they’re figuring out a really great way to optimize this thing. And when I do find this, and I know some people do this, but not everybody, we always create an area owner, we always create the proper audits, we we make it extremely visible, we want to personalize, we have a picture of the person, how to get in contact them, what their expectations are. Anyway, this gentleman, he says, I want to be the area owner. Now they have never been an area owner. There never been one in their company’s history. So I’m introducing this concept to them. And we’re trying to explain how, and he says, I want to be it. I don’t want to mess this up. This is better than anything that I’ve ever seen. And it’s got to work and there’s still stuff I want to do. That’s like, really? Are you the same guy. I met Monday.

Patrick Adams  21:32

Wow. Laughing You know,

Adam Lawrence  21:34

I said, Well, that’s cool. I think that’s great. So okay, so let’s get together and figure out how to set this up so that you so we can support you properly. Right? Yeah, so we did that. And, you know, a bunch of stuff. There were some automation, they were making barcode labels for things, and they were gonna get a, an iPad so that he could manage his inventory. I mean, all this stuff couldn’t be done in a week, but most of it was. And so he, you know, he was he wasn’t quite satisfied with everything that got done, but you know, clearly 100 times better than where he was. Okay, so that was pretty cool. I go away for a month or two, helping other Kaizen teams in the same company. And I went to visit him. Because I had a little I had a few moments, I could step away. And I said, Well, how’s this going for you? Yeah, because he says, you know, it’s still people are still taking parts when they shouldn’t, and it’s just not right. And I look over at the area, I go, you know, it looks better than we left it. He goes, I know, but it’s still not where I want it to be. I said, that’s fantastic. I said, you keep that going, I’ll help you get these other things finished, right. We now take people to visit his area. And you know, he doesn’t know they’re coming. And I say, explain your system to them. And he’ll start going, you know, I didn’t really think this would work. But man, I can find anything I need. People are still still in parts, but I’m finding what I need. And I can keep up with it and look at it. And I’m like, Ah, pure clear benefits. So he an hourly employee, he’s not getting any more pay. He’s got a system, he owns it. He explains it with passion. So that’s the thing. That’s what I love to see. Not it was it wasn’t, it was obvious, he should be the area owner, it was obvious to everybody but but then when he stepped up, that’s what you want to see. But the way the organization has supported him, he knows they have his back. And he’s passionate about it. And so it’s a clear benefit. It’s so solid, he’s not gonna let anybody mess up his area, the good news. So I worked in the background with their leadership and said, you can’t have one area owner in your whole company, that that is not a good idea. You got to start there, but you can’t end there. So since then, we’ve added a few in different locations. And now we’ve created some leadership, Denver routines through those areas to keep that momentum going. But I was so happy for him one time, one area that wasn’t in our scope, he got even that resolved. And it was even more of a disaster. We said we’re not touching that this week. So impressed that you know, we were high fiving I mean, it was just it was just the coolest thing to see the most skeptical guy making real change happen. That’s helping everybody.

Patrick Adams  24:41

Oh, that’s great. Very nice. And and you know, you’re talking about one area in a facility but then I heard you start to kind of reference maybe how this is starting to pour over into other areas. So you know when when you understand the benefits when these clear benefits are are clearly articulated and understood. Does that help to then start to spread this to other areas? Whatever that improvement was that is it replicated much easier?

Adam Lawrence  25:11

Yeah, it does. So the first one, two or three are usually more challenging, you know, you have to find the appropriate time to do it in the appropriate event. You know, if you’re in your facility every day, you can certainly do it without kaizen event, we found a second one, and then the third one kind of popped up on its own. So that was really cool. So people start to see the benefit that it helped in one area, they want that clear benefit in their area. So that’s what you want to start to build that momentum, it wouldn’t shock me to see another one that wasn’t kaizen event related on my next visit, which will be in a couple of weeks. Right now. That is really what you’re looking for. Because then the momentum it gets, the system gets bigger than the people, right? This is too important to let fail. It’s helping everybody. We won’t let it fail. I did the same thing in the company I worked for for 30 years, where we had a pilot facility. And we started with one clear owner, one area and by the time I left this whole r&d facility had like 32 areas with owners, and so that that thing had so much momentum, you know, they would do Kaizen events without a thought without my knowledge, right? And they would take another area, get it organized, make the flow good, the safety and the productivity, and they they assign their own area owners people would self assign, and we would just add that to our leadership. Ghemawat Yeah. So you have to build some form of critical mass. But yeah, that one person alone on the island, you can’t leave them alone for too long.

Patrick Adams  26:51

Yeah, yeah. And I’ve heard you mentioned leadership a few times. And if you look at the entire wheel of sustainability, I believe the center cap is leadership. Is that correct? Or?

Adam Lawrence  27:06

Yes. Okay. Yeah, that’s a hub. So leadership commitments, the hub of

Patrick Adams  27:09

all right, so how does leadership commitment, how does that, you know, fill in to this element? Because obviously, it plays a part in every single one of the elements. But this element in particular, how does that fit? Right? So

Adam Lawrence  27:25

you’re right, it does fit all elements. Here’s how it fits clear benefit? Number one is you got to know the message. Why is it a benefit? Right. So if leadership doesn’t know the message, they can’t reinforce the message. Clearly, in the area that we have the owner, leadership has to show up, right, they have to participate, they have to do the audit. So obviously, I bring other elements in, but when they’re down there with my area, my area owners don’t work for me. But you know, part of my extended family, right? So same message, participate in the audits, go visit, bring people to see that person, ask the good questions. how’s this working for you? Is there anything you need from me? How can I support you? You know, three months later, we brought a fan, it’s in Florida, right? So it gets really warm in one of the back corners? You know, hey, that would really help if we put a fan up here. Okay. Give him a fan. You know, this is work, and why would we want to do you know, anything to keep this from working? So keep showing up? Keep bringing people to see it. You know, I’ve encouraged many of the leaders in that company. Hey, listen, if you if you got five minutes, just go visit with the sky. Just go visit. Show your face, show them how impressed you are, because you will be I keep bringing different leaders over, you know, I’ll take them out of their offices. And when I can get away with it, I can always get away with it. I do that to help them. See the image of what leadership commitment looks like with this element. Just go visit with the guy. It’s working. Keep supporting him, show him that you care. keep reinforcing that message.

Patrick Adams  29:04

Yeah, and this is and that’s a great one to even build into, you know, sometimes especially executive leaders maybe are asking like, Well, how do I help support the the changes that are happening and you know, when we talk about Leader Standard Work, sometimes it’s hard to determine you know, that that percentage of work that should be standardized at the executive leader level, but this is a great opportunity to be built into your Leader Standard Work if you’re an Executive leader is going out and asking those questions and having them show you having team members show you some of the improvements that they’re working on. And that means not necessarily to go out and talk the whole time about it but more Listen, like this is the tool you want to use, right? They use your ears and just go and ask that the question like you said, Adam is like show me show me what you’re working on. Show me see that improvement that you’ve been able to do? You know, tell me the benefits of it, and then just be quiet and let them, let them show you. And there’s so much value in that. And then I’ve seen it just work wonders for change management.

Adam Lawrence  30:14

And when one of my Kaizen teams gets a challenge, like they’re kind of stuck, how are we going to do it? I say, You know what, let’s go visit this guy. And so it’s fun to let him have an audience. And I’ve done it with him to him for him, I don’t know, five, six times over the past nine months. And you know, when he’s there, it’s just so much fun to let him tell his story. There’s that recognition piece, right, tell your story. And just the the awe of the people in the audience that, you know, they remember the way it used to look, but they’re not naturally walking over there. Because you know, what, when it was a disaster wasn’t a lot of fun to be in there. You had a guy working there full time. And now it’s like a dream. And but just to watch their joy, and watch his pride, you know, put those two things together. And you’re just strengthening that leadership commitment to?

Patrick Adams  31:14

Exactly, exactly. Yeah, now it’s, it’s good, so much value that you’re offering to our listeners, you know, around sustainability. So thank you for that. And we’ll talk a little bit more about how to get a copy of Adam’s book, we’ll have sustainability. But before we do that, Adam, I just learned that you and I are going to be in the same place. Coming up here in is it in June?

Adam Lawrence  31:44

June 6 through eighth? Yeah, come see us a Gig Harbor, Washington for the global lean Summit. Yeah. So we’re actually going to meet in person. That’s exciting.

Patrick Adams  31:54

It is exciting. You know, Adam and I have been part of a consult a lean consultants mastermind for a little while together. And we’ve obviously interacted here on the Lean solutions podcast. But yeah, we’ll be meeting in person. Who knows? Maybe we’ll record another podcast together. I don’t know. But we’re definitely going to connect and have some good times with, with everyone out and Gig Harbor, Washington for the summit there. So looking forward to that. And definitely, if anyone’s around that area are interested to come meet us. We’d love to see you there.

Adam Lawrence  32:27

Yeah, should be a lot of fun. I know. You know, I know what I’m presenting on what do you present? nonmetric? Ah,

Patrick Adams  32:33

you know what? Yeah, that’s a good question. We I just confirmed yesterday, actually, that we were going to be there and fantastic. So we’ll have to see, I want to I want to make sure I present on something that ties in closely with, with the theme of the conference. What are you presenting on Adam?

Adam Lawrence  32:55

So a couple of things. One is, I’m known for how I do Kaizen Event facilitation. So Jared has asked me, they’ve asked me to demonstrate some of my techniques in challenging facilitation situations. That’s one. And then they’ve seen how I do value stream mapping. So I have some fun activities. I like to be really messy. When I do Kaizen, I want it, I want these tools to be easy that anybody can do, I don’t want anybody to be intimidated by it. So we’re actually going to show some value stream mapping approaches, and people are going to learn how to value stream map making a peanut butter and jelly sandwich.

Patrick Adams  33:35

Love it. Love it. That’s great. That’s very cool. Jared. And I did talk a little bit about gimbal walks and the possibility of presenting the maybe the process to carry out a gimbal walk or questions to ask or, you know, what does it look like to do that? So you know, possibly that’ll be a topic. But yeah, looking forward to it. Oh, go ahead.

Adam Lawrence  34:02

No, no, that’ll be a lot of fun. I can’t wait to see what you show up with. Absolutely.

Patrick Adams  34:05

Adam, if anybody is interested to grab a copy of the wheel of sustainability, where would they go to find where’s the best place to grab a book? Well, the

Adam Lawrence  34:16

best place is Amazon. I do have a hard I mean a soft cover and a Kindle version. I did not do an audio book there. You know, having sold a lot of books not really worried about that so much. But you know, love to anybody that’s interested. Take a take a look and see what you think. And I’d love your feedback.

Patrick Adams  34:36

Perfect. And then what about process improvement partners, LLC, if anyone has questions for you around some of the work that you guys are doing, where would where would be the best place to connect with you?

Adam Lawrence  34:48

Right so you can find me on LinkedIn all the time. I have a personal page you know, look for me, Adam Lawrence, and then process improvement partners has a page and also I have 67 and subscribers to my YouTube channel. So you could be number 68. And then of course, the website, pi dash partners.com. We just got a refresh on it just for fun. That’s my experiment for 2023 Just to see if we can turn it into something that looks a little less like an engineer put it together.

Patrick Adams  35:19

Perfect. All right, we’ll put those links into the show notes. So if you’re interested to grab Adams book, The Wheel of sustainability, you can go to right into the show notes and find a link there or to connect with Adam. Again, the both links will be there in the show notes. So Adam, once again, it was great to have you on the show for the second time. Looking forward to seeing you in Gig Harbor in June. And just appreciate you know, your you sharing and willing to just just continue to give into give back to the continuous improvement community. So thank you.

Adam Lawrence  35:54

Yeah, thanks for having me. Appreciate that.

Patrick Adams  35:56

Take care.