Patrick Adams  00:32

Hello and welcome to this episode of the lean solutions podcast led by your hosts, Shane Daughenbaugh and myself, Patrick Adams, how’s it going Shane?

 

Shayne Daughenbaugh  00:40

it’s going well. It’s going well, loving life right now.

 

Patrick Adams  00:43

Awesome, absolutely. Well, I’m excited for this episode. We have an amazing guest and a really, really great topic. So we’re going to be talking about the topic of conflict resolution. As you know, Shane coaching leaders to ensure their teams feel heard and respected, involves active listening, empathy, clear communication strategies, which I’m sure we’ll discuss, such as staying calm, practicing active listening, expressing yourself clearly, to feel comfortable during uncomfortable communication can be effective in absolutely any profession, in any industry. So this particular topic definitely applies to every listener that we have out there. Shane hit record today, we were chatting a little bit about even a situation that you’ve been faced with recently, or that you know, of what are your thoughts on this topic today?

 

Shayne Daughenbaugh  01:35

You know, I’m actually really excited about this topic today, simply because, right now, going on in my life. I’ve connected with a really good friend who is having some, some conflict issues, and it goes kind of like this. There were some changes that leadership is putting, putting out there and kind of pushing down, but it’s happening with minimal, very minimal communication, like no one really knows why or what’s going on, you know? And because of this, this minimal communication, there’s like significant holes, and I would say, areas of concern that my friend has in seeing this because they haven’t gotten any information, so the words that I’m hearing from them, you know, frustration deflated, you know, a sense of powerlessness, which then even leads to purposelessness, like, is my job even worth it if I’m supposed to be here telling them about these issues, and they’re ignoring the issues so so, you know, I’m, I’m interested to talk to our guest today, Joyce, about that. I mean, how can, not only, how can managers and supervisors and leadership, you know, kick conflict to the curb. But what about those under those how can they manage up? What tools do they have, you know, and what agency do they have to be able to impact that so that they don’t have this sense of powerlessness, so they can communicate in a way, in in, in a way that that is listened to, and that they’re able to remain calm, like you said, calm and collected, right? But also just in a way that gets the message across. So I’m really excited about Joyce Weiss that that we’re having here on the show. Our guest today holds a master’s degree in counseling from Oakland University in Rochester, Michigan. I almost said Minnesota, because that’s down the road. Stay down the road, right down the road from lean solutions. Is the author of the best selling book, take the ride of your life. She serves as the official curator in conflict resolution for the world of business and executive coach Summit. Joyce hosts the live broadcast, kick conflict to the curb, interviewing department managers and thought leaders. She is one of only 215 women globally who to have earned the the certified speaking professional designation, Joyce. That’s a mouthful, right, right there. Um, let’s see, where am I at? Known as the Queen of conflict resolution. I love that title. Joyce works with department managers growth minded individuals and small groups to help them use their voice confidently without losing their cool. Joyce, welcome to the show.

 

Joyce Weiss  04:06

Thank you. Such enthusiasm for the topic that’s a good thing to make the guest feel welcome. Thank you.

 

04:15

You’re welcome to have you, Joyce, I’m I am just right out the bat. You know, I want to know more. And I certainly want our listeners to understand a little bit about this idea, kick conflict to the curb. And that’s like your brand. That’s, that’s what you’ve you know, your whole business has revolved around that. Can you please explain that a little bit to us? Sure.

 

04:34

Well, kick conflict to the curb. I could. Thank covid, believe it or not, for the beginning of my brand, I was a keynote speaker, and then covid sort of put a halt on that for many of us. And then it dawned on me I wanted something more. I wanted to go deeper, so I decided to start interviewing my clients. And I said, What conflicts are you going through? Let’s talk real. And there was a pattern just started showing up. Number one, many of them said either they, or their direct reports, felt invisible and overlooked. And number two, they were caught in a conflict, and nothing ever got resolved. It’s like they were in a hamster wheel and going around and around and around. So that’s when it dawned on me, okay, here it is. I’ve always been a coach, so I’m going to concentrate on coaching and facilitating to help people kick conflict to the curb, and it’s not, I mean, I know you’re all about Lean solutions. Hello, I did research on you too, and it’s and we’re going to get into this. It saves time. And so that’s where it was born, and now it’s growing and growing. And I have a trademark, if you is it up there? Yeah, it’s right up there. Of course, kick is I could see my camera. Well, life isn’t perfect, folks. So that’s where it started, and it it’s just like I said, it’s continuously blooming because there’s conflict. What do we do with it? Well, I love it.

 

Patrick Adams  06:21

I love it. It’s a great introduction into, obviously, the topic of the day. And it’s fun. It’s exciting to to kind of put this, this spin, this fun spin on conflict, because it can be such a huge drag. And, you know, as we said in the beginning, everyone experiences conflict no matter what job you’re in, no matter what role you’re in. And you know, you touched on this just briefly, Joyce about time. I mean, if you think about what we do in the Lean world, a lot of times we are looking at, you know, the amount of wasted time that we spend. We’re trying to be more efficient with our time, and conflict is a big one that I don’t think we hit on very often, as far as, like, how much wasted time comes out of conflict, especially if it is not approached in the right way, because we all will have conflicts, not like, we’re going to get rid of conflict, right? We’re human, so we’ll always have conflict, but it’s about, how do we how do we respond when the conflict comes to make sure that we deal with it in the most efficient way possible, as well as solving it correctly, so that we don’t create more conflict down the road, or bad vibes, or whatever it might be. So I’m curious to hear like, as you mentioned, you can save time, like, how does that work? Can we kind of dive into that a little bit deeper and not how does how can we save time by kicking conflict to the curb? As you say,

 

07:51

unresolved, I love the question. Unresolved conflict costs us big time productivity. Are relationships get destroyed by unresolved conflicts. What about our health? Maybe you your viewers or listeners or I know my I’ve been affected by unresolved conflict because it it just churns insurance and churns and never, never getting it resolved and conflict when we’re talking about saving time, we’ve gotta realize that healthy conflict puts out fires, and we by understanding that responding and flexibility help with healthy conflict, that saves us time right there, unhealthy conflict, it starts the fires and unhealthy conflict. It’s like, Oh, if you win at all costs, demean others retaliating. And I have a guest on my show called kick conflict of the curve, who is a plant manager, and he talked so much about how his team, there’s no waste because they, they’re they, they do Lean in their in their company. And he said, there’s no waste when it comes to my team, they know all about accountability, because I tell them from day one, you’re accountable, not just for you, but for your team. When I’m not in the plant, you better act the same as I’m in the plant. And if it’s not, and I hear about it, there’s no going around it, we are going to have a tough conversation, and there’s going to be no excuses. I mean, we’re. Lee Jones was just so incredible as a guest, because he’s he said everything that I understood both of you already said about the leaders, and he told me, it saves him, it saves the plant time by having tough conversations instead of, and we’re going to get to that the conflict diverse people, and he got, and I’ll just have to say this through he received so many promotions because he spoke His truth even when he was shy, but he started getting respect, and that was 30 years ago, and he kept on going up the ladder. So you you want to know about it’s saving it saves time, and it also gives you that respect,

 

10:51

right? Joyce, you’re making me think of Kim Scott’s book radical candor. And you know, as a leader, just having those those conversations, not not turning your eye to it, or not waiting until it’s too late. What is it you do when you’re coaching leaders to make sure that that their teammates feel heard respected? I love how you I wrote down. You know, sometimes we feel invisible. You know, how do you help leaders make sure that that their team doesn’t feel invisible? What are what are you? What do you coach them at or on, or anything? Number

 

11:30

one, I coach them at or on, however you want to say, start asking curiosity, questions. Don’t tell don’t say, this is what you how you like, the way I point. I only point when I’m being a bad leader. Then you know, this is what you have to do versus how can I help you? Tell me more about this. How do you see it? And I’m going to throw this one in, and if we have time, I’ll tell you why it’s important to me. What don’t I know? And this one, people actually start crying to me when I coach direct reports, and they say my leader actually asked me, What do I need for them, from them? So those coaching questions are going to make people feel heard, not visible. They’re not going to feel pushed or judged. So that’s the beginning.

 

Patrick Adams  12:35

I love it. I feel like there has to be even before that, I would say there, there has to be a level of trust that’s been established in order for direct reports to honestly answer those questions. Because I could imagine, for some leaders, you know, I I’ve worked with leaders that are, you know, command and control, like you were showing us, you know, pointing and yeah, for someone like that to just all of a sudden, one day, they come out to the floor, and they’re like, Hey, so what are some things that I should know that I don’t know? You know, there’s a lot of people that are probably going to be like, Oh, nothing. You know, everything,

 

Shayne Daughenbaugh  13:14

right? Why do I want to share that with you when it seems like you so

 

Patrick Adams  13:17

what are you getting at? What am I if I say something, am I going to get in trouble? Is this a trouble? Joyce, what would you say? You know, obviously I love the questions, and I 100% agree with you that the curiosity questions are the key. But leaders have to be genuine. They have to genuinely want to listen to understand. They can’t they? And there has to be an approach that builds up to that, where they’ve developed a certain level of trust. Would you have any recommendations on, you know, how leaders develop that level of trust, where people would be honest to answer those curiosity questions that you laid out,

 

Joyce Weiss  13:56

I’m jumping out of my chair with that question. Start with the fact that you have to be humble. You have to have humility as a leader. And leaders who are listening and say, I have no idea what she’s talking about, we know what the word humble and humility. We know what that’s all about, what that means as a leader, as be real, realize that you don’t have all the answers. And once your direct reports talking about trust here, you say something like that, and that is a sign of strength when you can say, I don’t have all the answers. I need you. That is the beginning. I’m so glad you said, Yeah, first, let’s build the trust. That’s the beginning of having trust and building trust. And I’d like to share a story about Ron, if that’s I mean, I’m a storyteller. Okay? Still can’t help my keynote speaking, that still comes up. So Ron is a seasoned department leader. During his first promotion, he was, you know, he was just here. He’s here now. He had a chance to go on Zoom and share with his colleagues about the newest updates for the for the company. And he was so excited, and he said to me, joy, something happened to me during that Zoom meeting that was so atrocious that I never forgot about it. And as a result of that, I made sure that when I kept on growing I would never do this to my direct reports. So I said, What is this horrendous meeting? He was already Ron. Was all ready to share his screen when it froze. I’m sure we’ve all experienced that on Zoom, and he already knew that he had to take a deep breath, and in 30 seconds he’d think of something. He was an engineer. Okay, so you’re thinking that kind of thoughts, and he knew that in 30 seconds he’d have it fixed. His supervisor was on a call, Jody. She was a leader without humility. She was embarrassed. It was a horrible reflection on her. Is how she was thinking. She dove right into the meeting, took over. Ron was devastated. So that’s how he and that’s how most of us, who are leaders, learn how to be a good leader from some of the bad stuff that happens to us. So that’s how you don’t build trust, is when you don’t allow. Oh, I hate the word allow, when you when you don’t accept the fact that everybody fails. Let’s figure out what went wrong, not as a judgment, but as a positive thing. What opportunities are there? And this isn’t glorified motivational stuff, and you and you know that,

 

17:57

So Joyce, I like this, and let’s, let’s build off of the Ron story and go back to kind of what I was talking about at the beginning with my friend who is a direct report of leadership. That mean there needs to be a conversation, because this person was practically in tears. And once, once you’re in a position or a job, that you feel like you have no voice, that you’re invisible, and you know, that leads to that sense of purposelessness, like, what? What does it matter in my job, if you’re not going to listen anyways, then employees disengage, and eventually just walk out the back door, sometimes right out the front door, what? What would you coach to that person? And let’s say it’s Ron in this case, you know, here this great example, his supervisor came in, took over the meeting, ripped the carpet out from underneath him. You know, what would you coach Ron to do in in managing up to kicking this conflict to the curb?

 

18:53

I’m not silent because I don’t know what to say. I don’t know what to say. First, a few choices with this, this great challenge that you’re giving me, Shane, choice number one, don’t say anything. Delay a response. And that doesn’t mean you’re going to avoid it. Delay a response and think, do I want to have this conversation with Jody? Or don’t I, if you decide that you don’t want to leave the place, which you don’t leave a place just because you’ve got a lousy boss, because you’re probably going to have a lousy boss somewhere else, you got to fix it if you decide you’re going to do something, I have a strategy called Making conversations safe. It’s all it is, is I want to, I don’t want to. So bear with me. I would say, okay, Ron, what would you want to say to your to Jody? And he’s he’d say, we practice. Stink. This is what he would probably come up with. Jody, I don’t want to be disrespectful. You are my supervisor. I do want to voice a concern about me either growing within the company or being taken seriously. Are you willing to have an important conversation that opens it up? Is this making I see a lot, I see that. But do you have questions for me on this before I go on?

 

20:33

So you’re giving them, the other person agency, to decide if this is the conversation they want to have or not. So you’re not forcing them into it. I’m getting buy in from Patrick that if you know, if I’m saying this, Hey, do we want to have this conversation? Patrick can say no, right, as my leader, as my boss, supervisor, whatever, he can say no. And then, you know, I have to step back and maybe come at it from a different angle. But I

 

Patrick Adams  20:56

do appreciate the clarity too, in the beginning of I don’t want this to happen, and I do want this to happen. So being very clear on exactly what your intentions are,

 

21:07

yes, and it makes the conversation safe. Direct reports who are conflict at first, don’t know how to start the conversation. This is the beginning. I mean, I’ve got all kinds of other steps in the Weiss communications success plan, but this is the this is the second step. The first step was when I said, You’ve got to think, am I going to say? It’s stepping in the gap, giving yourself a moment. What do I want to say something now? Or do I want to delay it? If that, like I said, just to recap, if you decide to say something, this is a beautiful way of doing it. It doesn’t take years to learn. You have to practice it on your dog or cat first. You know by saying, hey, you know, I don’t want, I do want. And then it becomes a habit, and you at least start it, and it’s safe.

 

Patrick Adams  22:10

I love it. Joyce, you, you mentioned the the example, a very specific example of maybe the the negative side or or the beginning of what could become a negative conversation. Maybe that one ended up positive. I don’t know. I don’t want to, I want to assume that it did. But can you give us an example? Maybe it’s that one. Maybe it’s a different one, of a a tough conversation that did happen and ended up in the positive that and kind of what, what did that look like? What did each party feel like after the conversation? Maybe, what were some of the positive results that that came out of that? Yes,

 

22:51

and let me start off. This is another story. It’s all about unmet needs, unmet needs. So when we’re having tough conversations, if your need, Oh, I see, hey, I can talk to your dog. No, sorry, but he didn’t appear. When you’re having a tough conversation, you’ve got to realize, and this is a hint for all of us, that if you have a need to say something to someone, and you don’t that is going to show up lousy night sleep. You’re not going to like the person, okay, now that I set the stage. So Sue knew that she had have an important, not tough, but let’s say an important conversation with her husband. So this is more of a personal but anybody can have this at work too, and and her mother in law had to come and live with them because of health reasons, and Sue. Understood that that wasn’t an issue. What she knew, though, is she was having a problem internally, is at that you couldn’t sleep, is because she said, I have to have a lot of space within myself. I have to be quiet so I can re energize for work. And I’m really concerned. So I said to sue. So who do you need to talk to? And that’s what that direct report. You gotta think, who do I need to talk to? It was her husband in this case. So she did the I don’t want to. I do want to. She said, I don’t want to create stress between us. I do want to and address a concert of mine to make sure that your mother’s stay is positive again. She then said, are you willing to have this tough conversation or this important conversation? He said, Yes. And by her asking the curiosity questions, because that they go together, I am. I want to. I don’t want to creativity questions. How do you see this? What do you need from me? It’s not that anything was resolved here, Patrick, but what happened is that she spoke her truth. She did it by making the conversation safe. And her husband said, or I know that about you, you’re going to get your space, you make sure you don’t have to tell us. You know, they figured out how. So that’s why it it works at home or at work. We talked about a few things. But what do you do if you are a leader and you’re a good leader, and someone doesn’t want to hear your opinion about some feedback, we all, we’ve all experienced that. All more work. So anybody here who has children know that one of the best things to do is say, okay, Tommy, what would you do if you were me and sometimes the conversation works well, so when someone doesn’t want to hear you can say the same thing. Okay, what would you do if you were me and I didn’t want to hear constructive feedback about my performance? What would you do if you were in my position? Then ask the question, what do you need for me? Is there a better way? How can you handle this? It’s, it’s, it’s, you can use this one strategy, either in a simple the beginning form, or stretch it out in something really tough when you have a bully that you’re working with and he or she doesn’t care what you have to say, supervisor, it’s my way. Well, you don’t know how to deal with a bully, this is a good way to start at least having the bully understand that he or she isn’t, I’m not going to be a target for you bully. Mm, hmm,

 

27:06

yeah, at least that. I’m sorry. Go ahead, Patrick.

 

Patrick Adams  27:08

I was just going to say, I would, I would hope that the majority of our listeners are working for humble leaders, but I’m assuming there are probably some that are not, and are working maybe for police. I won’t ask you to to call them out, but you mentioned one strategy. I’d be interested to to hear a few more thoughts on that, because I do think that it’s probably more regular than we all think. At least in my experience, I don’t know that there’s a lot of leaders out there that were promoted into positions and have never really learned to be a leader. Maybe they’ve never led people before, maybe they don’t have that experience or training behind them, and all they know is command and control or scream and yell or be a bully. Shane asked this earlier, how do you manage up? But in this situation, you know, what are some other strategies that some of our listeners could use to to try to open up those conversations and get someone to engage in a healthy conversation.

 

28:17

So in other words, we have a relatively new leader. I’m just clarifying. You want a new leader moving up. He’s got a really a bully that he is dealing with as as an employee. How do you deal with that? Is that? What you’re asking me, I’m

 

Patrick Adams  28:34

going the other direction. So I’m saying I’m a man, maybe a manager, or a frontline leader, or maybe I’m an employee at a company and my upline, my manager, my supervisor, is a bully, and I want to have a an uncomfortable conversation or but I’m, I’m not sure what strategies I should use in order to have that conversation with Someone who is my boss, right? Okay,

 

29:01

here we go. Bring it. I had a bully in my life. Oh, Joyce, not a queen of resolution. Why do you think I’m in this field? Because I was a target for many, many years. Um, a bully. And I had to figure out if I’m going to get into this being the queen of conflict resolution. This is before I gave myself the crown, I knew that I had to figure certain things out. I use this all the time, whether it’s that I haven’t shared yet what the solution is. One of the solutions is that when you have a bully or you gotta figure out number one, observe the bully for me, I realized I wasn’t his. It was a him. I wasn’t his only target. He bullied everyone, and that’s important to to realize that you don’t start taking things personal. Oh my god, I’m so insecure. I’m weak as a leader. No no, no, no, you’re not the only one. He this. This bully has a problem. He does it to everyone. Number two, start paying attention to what the bully does, how, what his his, his or her way of bullying. For for me, it was always questioning me, whatever I did, the vitamins that I took, the fact that I worked so hard I was being judged, and raise your hand, guys, do you like being judged? No, no, I said, raise your hand.

 

Patrick Adams  30:53

Just listening, doing what I do.

 

30:57

You’re a good listener. So, of course, not. So by paying attention to what the bully is saying, and you realize that he or she is judging you, you gotta realize you’re not the only one. Usually bullies or these tough, difficult people do the same thing to other people. So then maybe you’re going to relax and you’re going to say you’re going to get rid of the imposter syndrome. I’m not good enough for this position. I’m not strong enough. Baloney. You just have to figure out where in my life have I been strong? And then the third part, and this is the part that people usually don’t do self reflection. What am I learning about myself? That’s when you once you realize that you’re not the only target, you realize that he or she is judging everybody. That’s when you can say to yourself, What am I learning? Maybe then the bully really won’t start continue. The bully won’t continue bothering you. Because you could say to yourself, oh, he’s he or she is predictable. I’m going to be judged. You’re saying this to yourself, and you can say something funny. Okay, bring it on inside. Not, not you don’t see it. Bring it on. I’m ready. Then the bully isn’t bugging you anymore, right? Am I? Am I making myself clear here?

 

Shayne Daughenbaugh  32:33

So this, this doesn’t this. This is more how I deal with the bully, not necessarily how I bring resolution to this relationship? Yes, this is how this gives me a safe place to reside when I’m in an atmosphere of bullying, or it’s just, you know, conflict will just make sense,

 

Patrick Adams  32:54

because we can only control our, our own, ourselves, right? I mean, it’s we can’t make them change. We can continue to try to have that that conversation, but the end of the day, that person may or may not accept it. They may say, No, I don’t, I’m not. I don’t want to have that conversation. Well, then you just have to, you just have to, as you said, Joyce, reflect on what you’re learning through this and how you can react appropriately and manage your own emotions and behaviors and make sure that you end up making the right decision,

 

33:28

right Absolutely. Because sometimes some bully depends where they are on the spectrum some bullies, you could have a conversation like, you know, I’m frustrated when we have conversations and judgment appears, or, you know, something like that, and, and there are many times when, when my clients have conversations like that, and, and the difficult person says, Oh, My God, I didn’t realize you did that. Well, if you don’t have that conversation, folks, that’s never gonna that’s a good story. That’s a resolution. Now, if you have a conversation like that, and the bully said, You take things super like, Yeah, forget it. You’re so insecure, you’re so weak, that’s when you know you don’t just have a bully, you probably have a narcissist. I know we’re getting a little bit up, but you got them together, right? Whoa. If that’s not a signal, you ain’t going to do anything with this person. Hate to say that.

 

34:34

So Joyce says, as we’re getting ready to wrap up, I do have one more question that I that I want to bring up, and we’ve kind of danced around it. But I would love for you to be a little more specific. What about those for for those people that are conflict diverse, like my wife, doesn’t like conflict. She she’s kind of that, that Peacemaker. She wants to just like whatever it is. And I know we have those all over our organizations, you know, all over the world. We just some people just know. Like that. So what suggestions would you have because conflict, you know, that’s, that’s very that’s, that’s an aggressive word in itself. But how do for those that are averse to that, what suggestions can you give them to to make them feel empowered, or tools that they might be able to try out on their dog or

 

35:18

because you’re, you’re being you’re so gentle with this question. I’m going to come in like a bulldog now. I’m going to say, because I’m always, I always have people say, as they fold their you can’t see my arms as they fold their arms when we’re talking about Joyce, I’m shy and I just can’t have those conversations. This sounds good. You seem like a really great facilitator, but it’s not going to work on me. And I I say this to everybody, and I believe I say this to myself. We label ourselves. So if you say that you’re if one your wife says she’s conflict averse, you’re saying that she is. You keep on saying that you’re not going to deal with it, versus on the fact that you are do you want to be that hamster? Keep on bringing up hamsters? Can you want to be that hamster in the hamster wheel and and not resolving conflict? Or do you want to start feeling confident about yourself and making a change in your communication skills, it doesn’t it’s not easy. That’s why one needs to have either a friend or a coach help break that pattern. But so many times it starts when you’re in high school. I don’t want conflict or I grew up in a family where conflict we brushed it under, or it was so big, I’m afraid of it fine. It’s time to close that chapter and figure out, what can you do about it. Yeah, love it.

 

Patrick Adams  36:56

Joyce, obviously, you know, we only have so much time, unfortunately, because I feel like we have so much more we could talk about, we didn’t even scratch the surface or get into your book at all, which I know is available for some of our listeners. If they if they want to go out there and find your book, take the ride of your life. Sure they can go to your website. But if people want to connect, if they have other questions, if they want to reach out to you for some assistance. Where would they go to where would be the best place to connect with you?

 

37:27

Email to start the conversation, which is Joyce. At Joyce weiss.com and we could set up a 30 minute jam with Joyce session that’s complimentary. Love that and that well, JJ, right. It’s all in marketing. So jam with Joyce and we could talk about an issue that that you may be having, you you can explore. Lately, people have been just saying, Okay, I’ve heard about you. I’ve watched the shows. What does it take for you to coach how much? How much is it? What are you going to do? For me? I don’t care. It’s your jam with joy session. You figure out what you want to do that with that. My website definitely. Joyce weiss.com that’s where you could find coaching packages, facilitation packages, face to face or zoom, lots of articles and videos that you can use in your own newsletters. And if you if you want a copy of my book, I have a deal. It’s the VIP special. Send me an email and you get two copies of two autographed copies of the book, one for you and one for someone else, for the price of one. And that that’s just, that’s an option they have, you have. And then the other thing is, please connect with me on LinkedIn. I have a brand new lease newsletter that was launched a couple months ago, called kick conflict to the curb. You see a little pattern here and and at and Shane brought up when we were talking before the recording started, is that you can go to kick conflict to the curb and take an assessment, and you will receive three emails from me about your results and a couple really cool videos so you can figure out how to feel confident and get conflict to the curb. So those lots of places for people to reach.

 

Patrick Adams  39:34

Yeah, easy enough. Well, we will drop all of those links into the show notes. So for those listeners out there that want to reach out to Joyce, you can go right into the show notes, and you can find those links and email Joyce, or go check out our website, grab the assessment. They’ll all be right there in the show notes. Joyce, it’s been great to have you on great conversation. Love your energy. It’s like with with you and Shane on the same show. Like, just a party here. You know, we’re I

 

40:03

know, oh my god, I love it. I love it. Let’s continue. Have you back and please, I want you on my show. Both of you,

 

Patrick Adams  40:11

you bet we’d love to,

 

Joyce Weiss  40:13

I’ll reach out

 

Patrick Adams  40:14

for sure. Cool. Well, thanks again, Joyce, we appreciate the time, and we’re to connecting again

 

Joyce Weiss  40:20

absolutely thanks to both of you.