Katie Anderson  00:00

This is Katie Anderson. And I am back here with Andy Albright. And we are here to practice some Han say, immediately following our 24 hours ago recording of talking about learning and continuing to chain and learning and having had a day of learning together. And at all, you are the host of our podcast, even though I’m holding the mic, and I will turn it back over to you.

Andy Olrich  00:58

Thanks, Katie. Yeah, we are back. And wow, what a difference. 24 hours can make a so yeah, it was really interesting yesterday, coming in. And we were talking about how what I was thinking about what I would expect or what I was hoping to get out of the day, it’s probably going to be hard to fit into the next 1520 minutes, whatever we’ve got here. It was just exceptional. And I just think it’s, it’s been really important for me to come along today. And sit in that room with all those people, I just always take away with pride that there’s just that many different professions, industries experiences, backgrounds that can come into one place. And it just goes pop when we get someone like you to facilitate the way you did today. So I guess you might be asking the questions he or Katie, I think I’ll throw to you. And if you want to ask me some things about how I went today, and yeah, let’s let’s take it for a roll. Because it’s like literally an hour since we left the venue. So yeah, let’s go. Yeah.

Katie Anderson  02:01

Great. Thanks, Andy. You know, let’s first start with this definition of the word hon. Say, which is one we covered today. And I by no means believe that anyone needs to use foreign words when they’re communicating. I lived in Japan for a period of time. And I’ve written a book about a Japanese Toyota leader. And I feel like there’s some nuances I learned in this Japanese word Han se means self reflection. And it’s one that we really don’t often take the time to practice because we get caught in this doing doing doing doing and like so we have a workshop or we have an experience, or we have an event or a project. And we’re just so focused on the doing and maybe we do this like, brief, you know, plus delta, you know, quick, a quick thing, but really like the deeper reflection is so important. So I want to practice some Han say here together. It’s something we’ve done to throughout the day. And it’s part of how I structured my book as well. In first ask you, Andy, what was your there’s a lot we did today? What was your key takeaway?

Andy Olrich  03:04

I think the thing that’s really stuck with me, at the end of it, you asked us to sum up the day one word, which was probably one of the hardest things I had to do today. But the word intention, and we, we went through, and we really unpacked what that meant, you know. And I think that for me, I use the word intention was that and it was around, where I saw myself in that room with the experiences that we did, I was reflecting on how I’ve, how I behave, how I believe I lead teams. And it really helped identify that there was some key gaps in how I operate that I needed to be more intentional with, and also recognize that people I work with, for them to see and recognize the intention that I have and where I’m coming from. I think, for me, that was that was the key takeaway. The other phrase that I can’t get out of my head is don’t be the wolf. I just found that was such a great way to sum up and I was just sitting there going, Oh, that is me, that is me when I’m having conversations or I’m engaging with teams to help them solve problems. If I get into that space, where I’m asking a question that’s also suggesting an answer or steering them and driving them a certain way, use the analogy of a wolf in sheep’s clothing. If you’re going to try and lead them in a certain way, or perhaps suggest what they should do, say to them, I’m going to give you some advice or I’m going to suggest something. So that for me was yes, my key takeaway was be more intentional and in in a way that people can see in a know it and just tell them what you’re going to do. I’m going to do this or I’m trying to understand don’t try and close it up and and try and find another way to do it because you can be seen as sneaky or you’ll drive them away from the answer that they have. So maybe long winded but as I said there was a lot that I took away from today. So there you go. Don’t be the wolf. Yeah.

Katie Anderson  05:01

So I love that you you just brought out two sort of key things that are just have been transformational for me. So one is this concept of intention. And I explained today how, when I lived in Japan, I didn’t have a business card and or nor a business logo at that time and I asked for the word intention to be put on my car tonight, I came to learn after starting to share this with Japanese people that it was a very powerful word in Japanese, coming from symbols, meaning samurai in heart, so the strength of your heart, or Kokoro, zatia is actually a separate word for the first symbol and direction. And really like both what’s our purpose? What’s really the strength of our heart? What’s the impact we want to make? And then what are the actions that really aligned in that direction? So intention equals heart plus direction. So we both have to know Like, who do we want to be? And what impact we want to have? And then, wow, do we are we really having the behaviors and actions that are really aligned with with creating that, so someone has around that, and then what I call break the telling habit, and I just have a recent podcast episode coming about the story that I that I shared with you both about being the wolf in sheep’s Sheep’s Clothing about us having all these disguised quest, quote, unquote, questions, but they’re really like our ideas disguised as the questions. And when I found out that I was like, this lion, jumping on top of people and literally, like, I don’t know, sucking the wind and the life out of them through my enthusiasm and my desire to help and like solve problems and contribute. But it was really like not giving them the space or the opportunity. So so much to learn there. But go listen to chain learning to hear my story about that, I think it’ll be episode 13.

Andy Olrich  06:44

And what was really cool is, I’m a visual person, and we actually had to draw down ourselves around how we, who we are, and what we thought our purpose was. So I didn’t know that was coming. And I’m not known for my artistic skills. So that was really fun. Because and we had a time box that was like radio, here we go, you’ve got X minutes, and everybody drew their pitches. And I thought I, what I drew down was, was probably easy to understand, and so did a lot of other people. And it was really funny, when we started sharing what we our pitches were talking about, is people were going Ah, okay, I took that as this or are right, actually, you saying that has helped me understand because I was trying to articulate that in my picture. And so there was this really cool back and forth about how we can help each other by just trying to go that deeper lay down instead of Hi, I’m Andy. And this is what I do it going into that purpose and trying to draw it on a pitcher in a short amount of time, and then explain it to others. That for me, really brought home the power of, hey, even if we’ve got a standard, or we believe we have a certain way of working, there’s still things that are open to interpretation, or people will have their own flavor, whether they intentionally do that or not. It’s having that collaboration and making sure we’re out there and present and talking to those people regularly. And that collaboration is key. So we will truly understand how people think how they see themselves or how they want to be seen. And then through that we can drive that pathway to respect and just seeing it from their side. So yeah, that was just another fantastic very hands on quick visual thing. And people walking away going, gee, that that was we went deep there. Weren’t expecting it. So that was cool. Yeah,

Katie Anderson  08:34

so simple, like visuals. And in sharing what’s important about ourselves, we so often stop it like, what’s your name? What’s your role? You know, what organization are you with, which we did today as well. But drawing your purpose is so powerful. And even for those of you curious to learn more about what we did here, I did actually talk about this in much more detail. And my own podcast on chain of learning episode four. And it was interesting as someone who came to the one of the workshops, actually, just a few days ago in Brisbane, said, Oh, I listened to your, your podcast. So I knew about this experience, but actually doing it in person was so different than what I thought, the actual exercise of 10 minutes of like writing, sorry, drawing, what was important to me and how I defined my purpose, and then sharing it with other people was so powerful. She’s like, Oh, my gosh, we really did connect, as you just said, Andy in a really short way on that human level, holding precious, what it means to be human. That is the real meaning of respect for people. And so we need to start with that with that heart and like what’s important to us and then we can work together and collaborate to achieve all those goals. So, really important, I encourage you to all of you listening, go grab a piece of paper and take 10 minutes and draw what’s important to you. And how do you understand your purpose right now today and share it with someone

Andy Olrich  09:57

100% And it’s Just amazing where that led us to then and we started talking around things about, you know, the interpretation of. And we, we then looked at some other things, but it drove the discussion to what’s that perfect tension that we seek, when between leader, team member, coach, all of those places that we were talking about where we’ll we’re really there today to learn how to be more effective and recognize some some key things that we should do. And also what are the blind spots and opportunity. So there was a really good discussion there around, okay, the rope isn’t tight, because the leader or the managers dragging them along, it’s, it’s that right tension where the people are able to be supported. You’re not doing all the work, you’re leading them. And then also that you’re not letting them go too far that they can fall backwards. And so that was it, what it all meant different things to different people this image. So we had a really deep discussion around Well, I see that as this or there’s that little bit there and diversity in the room. And people you could just see the cogs turning over. And people nodding and smiling, going, Ah, I think I do that a bit too much, or is that me? How do I see myself? So again, it was just reflection all the way through? Through these prompts and visuals. And again, Katie, you asking those powerful questions. You know, the answer is you’ve been doing this for a long time, and you pretty well knew where things might have gone. But you had those techniques and knew and you told us what you were doing afterwards, you said, Look, I’m intentionally leaving this space for you to think or there’s a reason why I put this pause in deliberately. So it wasn’t just like you were doing these activities or, or things by stealth, you would actually follow up and say what I just did there, or what I’m about to do. So that helps people really land in that this isn’t some magical mystical game, it’s really about, I’m going to share with you how I get this done, or how you can do it with others. So it wasn’t all we have to get Katie to come in every time we want to do something well, it was you were just handing over this amazing set of skills and approaches. So again, it was just really cool the diversity in the room. And we had to think and we had to stop and look back each time. 

Katie Anderson  12:52

I want to call out this, this thing you just talked about which I call labeling it and it’s something I learned from one of the most impactful coaches and mentors in my life, Margie agony, about describing what you’re doing and why and and, and I really encourage everyone to do this throughout their day as leaders, because we’re also trying to model the way right? And if we assume people understand the intention behind our behaviors, and also like, oh, yeah, that should make sense. But really, it’s not always clear and obvious. And so we’re both holding ourselves true to our intention. But we’re also being explicit about the reason we’re taking actions, the meaning behind it, and also kind of teaching while we’re doing as well. And so that’s the power of really, you know, modeling and teaching and coaching, both as a facilitator, but also as leaders each and every day, like, talk about why you’re asking open ended questions, talk about why you’re pausing, and maybe not giving the answer right away. It removes the assumptions people might be creating in their mind. And also, it’s, it’s sort of making it easier for people that say, oh, that’s the reason and maybe that’s something I want to take on as well.

Andy Olrich  14:06

Yes, there was a term that was used, and it was only the thinking process, not the thinking. And immediately again, it set off a little bit of an alarm with me because as a someone who facilitates stuff, some coaching assists with some, obviously some problem solving projects, etc. There is that temptation there if if things are not going so well or the rooms a little bit stalled, or some of the ideas may not be starting to be working effectively or whatever. You feel like you’ve got to dive in there and solve it for them just in the essence of speed or hey, we’ve got to walk out of this workshop with the answer. That temptation can be quite distracting it can actually as I said, knock the the enthusiasm out of the room or steal their ideas from what could be. So I really think on reflection again with that one. I was thinking how how often Maybe do I try to own the thinking and not just do my job and help own the process around the thinking and helping them to understand and fail and do all those things where they will get to that workshop? Maybe not with the answer. But they’ve learned maybe what they need to do next time, or, Hey, let’s take a pause, we need to actually go and have a bit more of a think about it. Let’s not just rush in to do something. So another, another slide that is just burned into my memory today. Yeah,

Katie Anderson  15:30

I mean, right, we get so focused on the outcome, and like calling you solve this problem, or like we get this project done? And it’s, it’s that pause of like, is it the answer to this problem? That’s the most important or me having the answer and showing my answer or getting them to the answer right now? Or is the process to get there, and I’m trying to develop capability in others. And that’s hard. It’s, it’s, it’s really hard. And that’s tied to our telling habit, because we want to jump in and help people along, like we come from a good place of like, wanting to, to help. But sometimes we’re, we’re kind of rescuing people too soon, because there’s that natural, inherent struggle that comes in learning. And so it’s us getting comfortable with that.

Andy Olrich  16:14

And you now that home, when you said you put up that image and you said if we do that, if we’re jumping in and trying to give them the answer, or were plugging in the solution to what they’re trying to solve, who actually ends up owning the problem. And that’s the person who’s, for example, if I was doing that, then I become the owner of the problem. And I may even become the issue because they’re kind of like, well, maybe any user and he’s got that now it in his project or Sandy’s problem. So yeah, if you can look at it in that, that end to end process around how you’re what you’re trying to drive towards the outcome, it’s, you know, I could give them the answer. Now, maybe even self interest, you could say, but I’m not going to because this is their problem to solve. They’re the ones who do the work. They’re the ones that are there. And I know that if they solve this problem, amazing, that could be the step, the cultural step change that we we seek. And if you don’t walk through that door, sometimes, and someone does it for you, you just don’t embed that learning. So again, it’s that learning the chain of learning. I wrote 1000 notes today. And we got to have this really cool experience where we had to write our credo, which is like your, I sort of see it as my 10 commandments for being or the 10 things that I want to do. I actually wrote 12 In a very short amount of time it was at the end of the day. But one of the ones in line with this was just it’s not all up to me to have the answers. And to be mindful of that is you’ve got an army of problem solvers in the room, why don’t you just let the process flow and get them to help you so the credo was good fun, too, because we got to look at your SheKnows credo, we got to see Katie’s it was a really fun activity. Again, very hands on and it just made you think and stuff and Okay, well, what, how do I want to behave? How do I want to live? How to Where do I see my purpose? And what’s my intention? So it may sound a bit deep and heading down a bit of a rabbit hole to you guys out there. But I’m telling you, there’s power in that, because you can always walk that back a little bit if you do get a bit too radical with it. But it was, it was great. Everybody was there. And they’ve been really putting down how they see what great leadership is we, we had an exercise. And Katie could have told us what, here’s the top 10 things great leaders do. We actually, we flipped that. And we actually had to think about great leaders that we had, and some of the not what they said but what they did. And it was all up on the wall for us all to see, hey, that’s what great leadership looks like a you guys know this, right? And for me, I was not looking at one person’s face. Like I’ve been very fortunate to have some leaders along the way. They’re different things that really helped me along the way I had them up on a wall in one place. So that was really good for me to look at that and go Well, that wasn’t just one person. I had to I bundle that up. And then be that become that because I feel that that’s how a lot of people would like a leader to behave. And Katie, as I’ve mentioned in the earlier part of this episode, she’s been at the forefront with GE in launch and running this program and running the workshops. We had a section there where Larry Culp, invited her along had given everyone in GE her book, and here’s a photo of Katie sitting up with the CEO of GE talking about how he had to forget everything he’d learned, because it was really about the whole leadership piece was it was just an awakening for him to read Katie’s book and go and talk about his own journey. If anybody doesn’t know who Larry Culp is look him up and there’s a lot of videos around how he talks about Lean and continuous improvement. And again, it’s about culture and learning and I think that’s That’s the reason why he’s been so successful. But But Katie’s in there and really helping him to, to continue to learn as well. So again, we’re just so lucky to have you here.

Katie Anderson  20:11

Thank you so much, Andy. And well, Larry didn’t give everyone a copy of my book. But he did recommend that everyone in GE read my book, which was a huge, which I was so thrilled about people at GE were emailing me saying Larry brought his your book on his summer holiday and is, is recommending it to everyone at GE, and actually is a great resource for learning to build on this. Larry Culp and all of GE held a an event in New York City about six months ago at the time of this recording. So at that, the end of 2023, called the Lean mindset. And all of those videos are available on YouTube. So I encourage you to go look at them. You can talk here, Larry talks about his vision for leadership at GE as well as all these amazing professional athletes, CEOs of different companies from Ford from Uber, you know, Wolfgang Puck and others talking about how they’re applying what we might call a lean mindset to their businesses. And then Carol Dweck, who wrote mindset, who also was on my podcast to and I met her at that event, it was just incredible, because it’s it all is tied together, we know what great leadership is, you can strip away the words of lean or, you know, six sigma, or continuous improvement or operational excellence or whatever. We know what great leadership is. And so going back to this concept of intention, how do we connect with our heart in the impact we want to have? And then how do we actually embody that each and every day and not get so distracted on the outcomes that we need, which we need to deliver businesses are in business to deliver outcomes and value for their customers? But how do we do that through developing people through learning, and through showing up as as leaders that are really like, fostering encouraging lifting people up? I mean, it’s no matter where I go, the same qualities are listed about great leadership, and people’s experiences doesn’t matter what country what industry, like, think about it for yourself. Think about that great leader or coach, he made a real positive impact on you, what did they do? And how can you do that each and every day.

Andy Olrich  22:17

And we also talked about what goes wrong. So there’s a really good example there around Toyota, and how the leadership there has called out and said very publicly, that something failed in the character, okay, around how they manage the quality. And so for someone, an organization, I should say, like Toyota, again, reflecting, coming out and saying it out loud that it wasn’t that we didn’t make cars. Well, it was our character has failed. And that’s the reason why we’re having some issues. And we need a reset and or tightening of the belt as what we talked about and how that can be like a, like a generational cycle, you get to a point where you are seen as best practice and everything’s going well, if the leadership’s not right, or the direction or the intentions, not there, and people can’t see it for what it is it’ll slip away. And then we’ll have these events and these failures where it’s all damage control, and then people step down or move. Toyota being who they are, have come out very publicly and admitted that they’ve, they’ve got it wrong, and they need to tighten the belt, as we said, so having those real lived examples of even what people put up high as the best. Hey, that can happen to them, too. Right? Yeah, that’s it. That’s why it’s so important that we have these moments of reflection, and that, again, was a highlight for me today.

Katie Anderson  23:43

And the highlight for me was is having you in the room and having so many people just be engaged and present and being learning leaders. So that he you know, I talked about the leading to learn framework is a leader whose purpose comes down to three really essential and an easy, actually, my easy but simple concepts, one set the direction, like where do we need to go, provide support, like help encourage their people how to get there, give them the skills, the capabilities, this, the systems and structures that allow them to get there. And three, develop yourself. And so being willing to have the humility to know that we all need to keep learning and developing and growing, it’s hard to be a leader, it’s hard to be a coach, it’s hard to be it’s hard. It’s hard to be a human right like to do our best, but it’s about each and every day trying to commit to being better. And and learning our way forward.

Andy Olrich  24:37

Yes, and in that learning spirit, we again, we did a hands on practical activity and it was around we got some training and some insights in how to coach the right types of questions to ask at the right times. And we went through an exercise where we actually had to then take that into practice. And each of us had a turn at certain activities and we would, we would see then we will actually have a reflection of score basically on how we went and just having someone write down the questions or the things that you said and did when you were taking this approach forward for the first time, you know, with a real problematic issue that you were asked to come to the workshop with. That was kind of daunting in a way. But it was also pretty liberating, because they didn’t have the history in you. And you just found yourself kind of being forced to ask these questions in a certain way in a certain time, and getting that reflection immediately that feedback. That’s something that you use the analogy around, when you’re in the gym, like you might lift some heavier weights in a in a short time to build up that muscle to push yourself to see how you went. That’s that’s really what happened in that room. And everyone just jumped in, it was really good. There’s some people who you could tell were a bit nervous, and some that thought that they were fine. But everybody learned through that and putting it straight into practice for me was was great, because it was wasn’t just a workshop training. And when you go back to work in the next 90 days, I want you to try that once it was see that, okay, now we’re gonna do it. And here we go. You’ve got 15 minutes, and you do this, this. And so that was that was great, fun. And I actually, it was the best I’ve articulated the problematic issue that I’m trying to solve where I am now that I’ve ever done know that he just just helped guide me to that place by asking the right questions. So I’ve got this thing written down that I’m going to take back and what’s next? That’s yeah, I’m letting that one drop when I get back to work.

Katie Anderson  26:33

Awesome. I mean, that it’s important for us to practice but not necessarily just roleplay. But like, let’s practice on something real, right. So that’s the that that’s super, super impactful. It’s been such a great day, Andy, and I’m really appreciating this holiday and hearing the real time, feedback from you about your experience, we My goal is, as I shared today is twofold. Have a great experience in the day like it was a worthwhile day. But as you said, have something tangible that you can take away immediately that work towards being a better leader, a better coach, a better human being. So Andy, I’ll ask the same question, what is the one thing that you aren’t going to practice with intention coming out of today towards getting better and growing your chain of learning?

Andy Olrich  27:18

Yeah, I’ve been reflecting on that ever since because we just did so much good stuff. But it’s that word intention just keeps coming back. I really want people to see the intention know what I’m all about, clearly, and those those types of actions, I think it’s kind of with that intention and the openness and, and also asking for feedback, building that trust. And I really just want at the end of the day that people know My hearts in the right place. I won’t always give you the answers. But I’m really here for you and for myself to at the end of the day, just be respected, respect others, and at the end of the day, just be happy. So be more intentional. And sometimes the word when I think about the word intention, sometimes people say you need to lead with intent, or you need to be more intentional when you’re having that discussion. Sometimes it feels like it’s a bit of a an angry or a bit of a bit of an aggressive kind of thing. For me that process what we went through today was no intention is just you doing what you say you’re following through on people, it’s real. And people see that. So it would have been sitting on the the angriest scale of when people said you need to be more intentional. Like I said, for me, it’s it’s about building trust, and kind of takes the pressure off if you’re intentional people know really where you stand that gets rid of a lot of myths and legends and for better or worse, people know what they’re looking at. So I hope I answered that, okay, it’s been a big day.

Katie Anderson  28:45

A if you are leading with more intention, connecting with your purpose and the impact you want to have and being more aware, and an explicit on and behaviors that are going to align with that and sharing that with like being aware for yourself, but sharing that with others. Like how it’s a huge win for me. My whole thing is about how do we live and lead with greater intention. And through that so much will come. So it’s been it’s been an awesome day. And I really appreciate this time for reflection. Thank you everyone for listening to our like truly real time reflection. We’re sitting here in my on the on the couch in my hotel room, following We’re like two blocks from where the from the where the workshop was. This is this is real. This is in the moment. And it’s awesome to be here in Australia. And I can’t wait to be seeing you in Michigan in just a few months. So tell us more about the event that lien solutions is hosting and I’ll be keynoting

Andy Olrich  29:38

absolutely what a segue. So yeah, we’ve talked about a lot today, but we haven’t given you everything. So if you want to see more, you need to come along. And it’s in September. It’s in Michigan, and it’s the Lean solutions Global Summit and it’s all about the theme this year is about accelerating continuous learning. So Katie’s a keynote we’ve also got some fantastic other present is coming along. And we’re going to continue this building this chain of learning. I think that what has been applied in this workshop today, I’m really keen to see what what does Andy Horik look like when I’m talking about myself in the third person? What’s happening there? But what is what do I look like walking into that workshop and events and all those things that’s going to happen there. So 24th of September, Michigan, if you want to know more, go to lean solutions.com. There’s some links in the podcast notes on here. So again, Katie, I’m really looking forward to, I guess, coming to you, I’ll be heading over the Pacific to see you. For those people out there who’ve want who’ve not known a lot about Katie or want to get in touch or want to know more about Katie, Katie, can you just roll through the some of the ways that people can find out more about you and get in touch?

Katie Anderson  30:55

Absolutely first. So first, I want to build off of the lean Solutions Summit that’s coming on. And Patrick Adams, who is the president and founder of Lean solutions, was recently a guest on my podcast and there is a special discount for the US on the earlybird registration. So if you go to my podcasts, you’ll get the link to the $100 off registration for the early bird price up through June of 2024. So go over to chain of learning.com/twelve which is the episode with Patrick Adams. So that’s one way you can get in touch with me this listen into my podcast chain of learning. Of course connect with me on LinkedIn, K B. J. Anderson with n o n.com. I have a newsletter and on well, I guess I’m on LinkedIn, KB, J Anderson, or Katie Anderson, you can find me there. And then my website KB, J anderson.com. And of course, my book which which we talked about a lot today, which is learning to lead leading to learn lessons from Toyota leader you sow Yoshino on a lifetime of continuous learning. So I you know, what, what I shared today in my drawing is that my purpose is to connect people around the world and connect our hearts and minds so that we can make the world a better place. So I really genuinely love the opportunity to be back in Australia and my home city of Sydney, where we are right now. And connecting with people wherever you are remotely in person. And I hope to see many of you in Michigan this September as well. So connect and it’s been awesome to have this conversation and I’m throwing out a follow up for us, Andy in six months when we’re back together in person, let’s conduct some more Han say some reflection and about what you’ve learned by putting things in practice what I’ve learned by putting things in practice, and continue to to reflect and learn and grow together. Dale,

Andy Olrich  32:45

I so look forward to it, Katie, thanks again for giving yourself your time. We love having you on the podcast and we’ll talk again real soon. Thanks, everybody for listening and we’ll catch up with you next time.

Katie Anderson  32:57

Yes, and be sure to look out for those drop bears anytime you’re in Australia.