Patrick Adams  00:00

Hello, and welcome to the Lean solutions podcast. My guest today is Trina Poston. Trina is a leadership consultant and adjunct facilitator, speaker, strategic portfolio manager and an experienced lean practitioner. But as the founder and principal of Ma P coaching and consulting, business consulting and personal coaching firm, Trina is devoted to serving clients through customized solutions to improve performance. Well, welcome to the show, Trina.

 

Trina Poston  00:57

Thanks so much, Patrick, excited to be here.

 

Patrick Adams  00:59

I’m excited for you to be here as well, Trina, you and I have worked together on a few projects over this past year. And I’m excited for you to be on the podcast and just share some of your experience and some of your expertise with our listeners from all around the world. But they have never met you before. So let’s tell them a little bit more about your background. Trina Can you just tell our listeners, you know, maybe a little bit more expand on your background and how you got into lean? Absolutely.

 

Trina Poston  01:30

I started my career in healthcare pretty much right out of high school, had been working in some clinical spaces, and then transitioned into education, training and project management roles, and had been doing really well in that space was working on strategic portfolio of work. And at that time, my department was actually absorbed into our performance improvement area, which was led by a former lean consultant. And so he really did a nice job of embedding Lean principles within our organization. So kind of started our internal bronze training, really focused on MBI, and some of those types of principles. And so that was really, really where I cut my teeth in Lean. And so from there, I transitioned into a manufacturing environment, which as you know, the general mantra, you can know, lean, but you can’t really know it until you do it in a production environment and space for about four years. And then transition back to healthcare for a bit. And now working on my own working with organizations who are growing and building in agility and lean.

 

Patrick Adams  02:39

love it love it. And so you obviously, you know, spent quite a bit of time in the healthcare industry in but you’ve been you’ve done work, you know, like you said, in manufacturing, but you’ve also done some work, even, you know, on the administrative side with with state and local government. In fact, I know you were recognized by the state of Michigan Office of good government with a symbol of excellence, which is pretty cool to you know, there’s not a lot of people that can, that can, you know, say that they’ve been recognized by, you know, state governments. So that’s pretty cool. Congratulations on that.

 

03:11

Thank you some really exciting work, we were able to work with elegant County, I’ve done some work with the city of Grand Rapids. And really, it’s it’s so fascinating, because as you know, these skills are transferable to really any environment. So to see municipalities kind of wean into this work and take it on. It’s been really exciting to see.

 

Patrick Adams  03:32

Love it, love it. And then you mentioned the the bronze certification or bronze work. And I think you said it was internal for the health care that the health care organization that you were working with. Was that based on Shingo, or was that just an internal one that was put together by the healthcare organization or tell us a little bit about that?

 

03:53

I’ve actually done both. So that particular one that runs training was internal to the organization I was in. And then I’ve also been through the Shingo series as well. So it’s been nice to have kind of a homegrown program and be able to compare and contrast that to Shingo. I am hands down, a Shingo believer, I think that you know that starting with people is critically important and it’s probably one of the things that most organizations miss on their Lean journey. So, definitely a believer in Shingo. love it love

 

Patrick Adams  04:28

1. And then the last question about your background, you’ve done some work in design thinking, as we kind of transition our conversation, you know, specifically maybe around lean, how do you see design thinking and lean, you know, coming together, and I know you mentioned the people side of things a little bit too, so maybe, you know, how do all those work together? Specifically, I’m just specifically wanting our listeners to hear a little bit more about design thinking and your work that you’ve done there?

 

04:55

Sure. So the principle of design thinking one of The principles of design thinking is really about how might we, and what if, right, and it’s expanding our borders a little bit to think differently. And so what I find in many organizations is that we can sometimes lock in on what we believe a solution is the solution, or the problem that we’re trying to solve. And it narrows our thinking so much that we’re not really creatively thinking anymore. We’re not critically thinking about the problem, we’re just gunning toward this kind of tunnel vision solution. So what design thinking enables us to do is have that convergent and divergent thinking where we say, well, what if we do it this way? What if we did it that way? What if we entered a constraint? What if we took a constraint away, and it allows us to open up our minds a little bit more and think about a potential solution from from multiple angles?

 

Patrick Adams  05:47

Love it. And we’ve done quite a bit of work and using utilizing the tool sets in the methodology. And definitely something you know, we’re not going to dive too deep into it today, but definitely something for our listeners to look into. If you’re unfamiliar with design, thinking principles, there’s definitely a great overlap and tie in with the work that we do in the in the Lean world. And, you know, just thinking down that same path. So there’s a lot of engineers that are probably listening in, who are lean practitioners. I mean, traditionally, I think, you know, when you look at lean being applied in the manufacturing world, many industrial manufacturing mechanical engineers, you know, became lean practitioners or, you know, that was a part of their schooling, which I know even today, a lot of a lot of engineer curriculums include leaning now in how they’re learning. So we ended up with a lot of engineers in the Lean world. But your background is not necessarily in engineering. And I’m curious to understand or know, you know, how you think or feel like having a non engineering background? How does that benefit you as a lien practitioner? Or maybe maybe there’s some, maybe there’s another side of that, where maybe there’s some things that you feel, you know, could be benefited? If you had an engineering background? I don’t know, what do you feel like the, you know, around that topic?

 

07:12

It’s definitely interesting. So my background is in liberal arts, I majored in communications and undergrad, and I had a sociology minor, and how that ended up benefiting me, obviously, I didn’t know this at the time. But the study of groups and help people interact was really fascinating being in a lean space. So if you think about a large organization, each area has their own kind of flavor and feel and vibe, HR is very different from is, is very different from marketing. Marketing is obviously very different from production. And so what I think it allowed me to do was be able to take the skills and concepts and translate them to that particular audience and understanding their vibe a little bit. And so that’s a big part of that people piece. I think one of the things that I use Japanese terms, just just tell us what this means. And so not not having an engineering background allowed me to translate and put the same concepts and principles into terms that people understand based on their specific department or function in an organization.

 

Patrick Adams  08:26

Yeah, that’s, those are two, I mean, those are a couple of really great, great thoughts. I love, you know, the people side of things, and that the importance that that, that, you know, that it brings, like, you know, I think about back when I was working in the corporate world, for a couple of different manufacturing companies, and I had engineers working for me. And I remember, you know, not all engineers struggle with this. But the engineers that I was working with, in particular, you know, just had a hard time wanting to, you know, build those relationships, or they just wanted to go out and work on equipment or, you know, design, you know, whatever it was they were working on, but they they had a hard time with the people side of things. And I remember, you know, coaching them on that, and I learned a lot through that as a young manager at that time. But later on in my corporate career, I remember some young engineers who were either interns or had just graduated, asking me for advice. And the first thing that I told them was, go find a job as a production supervisor and manage a team. Because you’ll learn so much about what it means to deal with people in relationships and things that unfortunately, you know, they just don’t teach that stuff in school, you know, so that was, that was always my advice to engineers. I don’t know if you’d have similar advice or other thoughts for any engineers out there that are in the Lean world. Absolutely.

 

09:50

So the people component is huge. I also take a communications course, think about presenting because Our friends and engineering are wonderful about thinking about how things work, not as strong about communicating how things work. So for example, we run into a lot of engineers that go, Well, this is common sense, we should just do this. And while yes, that’s true, but communicating it to people that don’t do this work day in and day out as a very different to indications course, or even something like public speaking, or Toastmasters, to get them in the vein of essentially pitching the why. Because it’s a very different experience to walk into a marketing team, you know, a group of creatives, and explain to them why they should have processes in place, a lot of areas in organizations feel like creating structure is stifling to their creative abilities. And so, you know, lean actually frees up a lot of time to be more creative if it’s done well. And so helping people understand that is critically important when you’re not working in a production or an engineering environment. So

 

Patrick Adams  11:04

true, it’s such a such an important strength to have. It just makes me think about, you know, in that this is important, not just for engineers, I think for everybody, you know, to be able to present in front of groups, not just to present in front of groups, but even you know, understanding as a lean practitioner, how do I, how do I communicate the value that the work that that I bring, or the project that we worked on the Kaizen event that we completed? How do I report that the results of that to upper management to executive leaders? So understanding and knowing even the language, you know, I think, obviously, about executive leaders, you know, are an important aspect of that, that for them is the financials, right? How much? How much did it cost me to do this project? And what’s my ROI on it? Well, if if we’re not as lean practitioners, if we’re not communicating that in our report outs, or, you know, in our conversations with with upper management, than the value that we bring to the table, you know, we may be under utilized or undervalued, if we’re not able to communicate it properly. Would you agree? Oh,

 

12:11

that was the first time. The other he said, I would say is being able to communicate, when that ROI is going to be recognized, a lot of we do as long as right we see some incremental improvement at the end of a Kaizen or at the end of six months. But to be able to forecast what that would look like, at the end of the year, you know, within five years, is really important. And sometimes we that lien isn’t effective, because it’s not as fast as they think it is. So being able to communicate, yes, this one is a quick win, or this one is more of a long game is part of that communication skill that becomes critically important to help people understand where they are in the journey.

 

Patrick Adams  12:51

Yeah, so important. Understanding also the difference between soft savings and hard savings and, and being able to, you know, quantify those quick wins, and obviously, quantify the long the long wins, or the, you know, the long term ROI as well. So yeah, it’s such an important strengths and skills to have. What any other advice that you would give to, you know, maybe not just an engineer, but a young leader in an organization who is, you know, maybe just starting their Lean journey or, or just getting into a company that were there, they’ve now you know, they’re managing or in charge of Lean initiatives, any advice for them?

 

13:37

Yeah, my first piece of advice is always listen more than you speak. Right? We talked about getting to the gemba. And of course, you know, using all of the Japanese words are really going to watch what people do. Listen to what they’re saying. One of the things I always listen for is the actual noise level in a specific area. Is that loud, is it chaotic? Are people struggling to figure out what to do and who to talk to? That’s something to pay attention to. Because as people become more familiar, and processes become more streamlined, that noise level goes down an awful lot. And you notice that there’s just movement because people know what to do and where to go. And so definitely observe, listen more than you speak and figure out who the go to players are in a given space. There are always those couple folks that everyone tends to seek knowledge from. Find out what they know, and how to disseminate it across the team.

 

Patrick Adams  14:38

Yeah, great advice. Great advice. So you’ve worked in, you know, a lot of different industries in the social sector in the private, you know, private sector, you’ve, you’ve worked in manufacturing and healthcare, you’ve worked with state local government. You know, lean is applied in all of those areas. You know, in different ways, and I guess I’m thinking specifically around the tools and the techniques. You know, the the culture, you know, is the culture. But when it comes to lean thinking when it comes to, you know, lean practices in as you’ve, in your experience in all these different industries and places, any favorites, any favorite tools, techniques, any favorite practices that you’ve been able to apply with, with teams that you’ve seen have considerable benefits or outcome, a good outcome?

 

15:31

Absolutely, my hands down. absolute favorite is Hoshin Planning, also known as x matrix or strategy deployment. I find with that one, getting organizations to be able to articulate and also visually display where they are, from a strategy perspective, benefits the entire transcript thing to be able to see on one piece of paper where the organization is heading. And so as an individual contributor, if I’m questioning what to do with my day, if I have an extra hour of a meeting that was cancelled, where should I spend my time, the organizational priorities are set. And so to know what my immediate upline is working on, or what my department is working on, and how it relates to the organ and organizational strategy, being able to see that in front of me, is a game changer. And I think it’s one of those things that’s overlooked in organizations, how powerful having a strong strategy can be. What lean brings that, obviously, with an X matrix is, is having that one sheet of paper that one reference point that people can go back to? Absolutely.

 

Patrick Adams  16:44

And, you know, part of that whole process is establishing your, you know, your long term goals, long term direction as an organization, and then aligning to that, from there, in some kind of, you know, maybe it’s a three year and then a one year or something to that effect. What do you think from there, I mean, organizations that are maybe have adopted some kind of motion for the organization? Do you recommend a quarterly a weekly, daily? Like, how do we align our, you know, our department or our team goals to that overall organizational strategy? That’s, that’s been developed? Yeah, definitely, probably,

 

17:26

mostly, for a couple reasons. One stood in the middle of doing it, right. And having those conversations, what I love about the process is it gets people to ask questions. So for example, and not only just ask questions, but ask for what they need in terms of resources, there’s no hiding, right. And that’s part of what those of us who are in this profession enjoy about Lean, there’s no hiding. And so if there is a bottleneck forming, or if there’s a resource constraint coming, you can get it on the table. And you can just ask, right, or make the request for what you need. If you’re, if you don’t have the bandwidth, you put that on the table in real time. And most of the time, at least from my experience, I find that there are folks who are either willing to step in as a stretch assignment, or the organization has, has or can develop a response plan.

 

Patrick Adams  18:24

Exactly. And, you know, in the Lean world, we have a lot of that back and forth, we call catch ball. But what do you think is the value of having executive leaders or leaders are involved in that process?

 

18:42

You can’t underestimate that. So first of all, having your executive leaders be able to articulate what they’re responsible for, as well as what their peers are responsible for. So often, our organizations function in these really tight silos where the left hand doesn’t know what the right is doing. And so what potion does is open that up. And typically, there are more, there’s more than one leader that’s ultimately responsible for any given strategic priority. So the fact that they can articulate it, you know, more than one person can articulate it, that starts to build the team camaraderie dynamic, as the as those goals cascade throughout the organization. So, you know, Patrick, if you and I are working together, and we’re executive leaders, we’re able to say, here’s what I need from my team, who do we need from your team in that conversation, that collaboration just cascades throughout the organization just like the priorities do.

 

Patrick Adams  19:39

Right? That’s so important. I love that you mentioned that because there’s so many organizations out there that are struggling with that silo mentality in the in you know, I’ve been involved with a couple of companies that almost promote the silo mentality because they, they see value in kind of the like entreprise. An Oriole, like, I want you to run your organization the way that you want in, and that might be different than the way that this person wants or this person wants, I think you can have both, I mean, at the end of the day, you can promote that type of management, but at the same time dropped on those walls by aligning to some higher, you know, long term goals or organizational goals. And I think that’s the value, like, to your point that Hoshidan brings in is it, it gives us the ability to align as an organization, and I think, if you don’t have leaders involved in that, then that whole, everything’s just gonna fall apart. Because, you know, every every leader is going to start running their their organization and heading in a direction that they feel is important, which may not be the same as another leader, which may not be moving the organization as a whole forward closer to their goals. So there’s just so much value and bringing them together, and actually, having that process happened, you know, together? Absolutely.

 

20:57

So it’s, it’s all interconnected. I mean, if you think about it, think from an expansion perspective, if you’re in an operation, and you’re going to open another facility, or even another line, you’re going to need to staff it, which means you’ll need HR, if you’re producing a new product, right? That’s great. But you’re also going to need your sales and marketing team to be able to promote it and get it out to market, no one really does anything alone, regardless of how much they believe they’re in silo or that they are meeting their own goals, there are other parts of

 

Patrick Adams  21:30

the organization. And if you’re not happy, oh, sorry, go ahead,

 

21:33

I was just gonna say there are other parts of the organization that are inherently going to touch or be impacted by the work that you’re doing.

 

Patrick Adams  21:42

Absolutely. And, you know, some of those departments or teams may be at capacity, you know, with the workload that they have, and now they’re getting these, these weird, you know, requests for, for resources or for you know, for whatever it is some type of a work request, and they’re trying to juggle all of that and meet those those requests. And if there’s not conversations that are happening at the higher level around, you know, what’s important as to the organization, and how do we align those priorities, then that can be really stressful and can cause an extreme amount of anxiety for leaders, you know, in in those, you know, those departments or those those areas, so, very,

 

22:27

absolutely. One of the things we talk about so much in business right now is burnout. And a lot of that stems from not having clear organization priorities, because people don’t know what to work on. And they don’t know what they can say no to. So you ask kind of why Hogan is my favorite. It’s because it gives us the opportunity to say no, or to say no now. And so often, we don’t take advantage of that in our organizations. Good

 

Patrick Adams  22:51

point. For sure. So just changing gears just a little bit here. You know, again, a lot of talking to lean practitioners like yourself, who have who have been in different areas, and you’re continuously working with lots of different industries. You know, I think you and I don’t have to, I think we can both agree that Lean is relevant going into the future. But But things are changing considerably. Technology is changing, the world is changing, you know, all the supply chain challenges that we have that too many changes with, you know, within the organizations that we work with? What in your opinion, what do you think is the the next evolution of Lean what’s going to happen down the road as all of these changes are happening?

 

23:39

It’s a great question. While I don’t have a an exact name for it, see is more a measurement of different terms and frameworks and methodologies. So right now, I know one of the things we hear a lot about is lean, agile. And that’s kind of the combination of some of the Lean principles and agile project delivery. And I think that’s going to continue to grow and evolve. You and I have talked about this a couple of times where this is about this work is about the toolkit that you can develop right and being knowledgeable enough to know what you need in a given situation. So I think there’s going to be less of the kind of framework silo and more of just this large toolkit or body of knowledge where we have practitioners from all different backgrounds who are leaning into the work and making really sound business decisions, not just production decisions.

 

Patrick Adams  24:39

Yeah, I love that. I love that that that whole thought of you know, everything kind of coming together. You know, I’m a huge proponent. I talk about this all the time, but of using the right tool for the job, you know, so because people ask me all the time, well, are you a Six Sigma guy? Are you a leading guy like, you know, we’re where do you fall on? on that whole deal? Well, to be honest, I don’t really, I don’t have a side that I take, like, I’m, I’m a problem solver. And when there’s a problem in front of me, I’m going to try to use the tools that I have on my tool belt that that are the best tools for the job, you know. And so if I need to use a doe, I’m going to pull that out of my six sigma tool set, if I, if I need to apply, you know, a gimbal walk or Leader Standard Work or your I’m going to pull that out of it another tool set, and I don’t really care where it comes from, I’m trying to solve this problem in the most efficient way possible, that’s gonna get me to the solution as quickly as possible. And you know, so again, when I don’t care, agile, Six Sigma, call it whatever you want, I don’t, it doesn’t matter to me, as long as I have learned and understand how to utilize the tool sets properly. So what are your What are your thoughts on that?

 

25:55

I wholeheartedly agree. And I think that expansion, kind of, as we talked about, is going to lead us all of that has a role in the work that we do as lean practitioners, right? So I think about simple things, working on a line or setting up the footprint of how something’s going to be produced. That’s all great. But if we have someone on our team who has limited physical range of motion, what do we do about that? And how do we accommodate it? So I just think there’s this kind of mental shift and mental model expansion that’s going to have to factor into the work, certainly, sooner than later.

 

Patrick Adams  26:33

Yeah, absolutely. I agree. I think, you know, again, working with different cultures and different industries, different teams, it’s a you know, different time, I mean, things have to change as lean practitioners, we have to be flexible, with, with how we apply continuous improvement methodology. At the end of the day, if we’re getting to the root cause of issues quicker, if we’re putting solutions in place that are sustainable, and helping us drive closer to our long term goals, as an organization, if we’re able to meet our motion and move, you know, as an organization, meet those goals that are aligning us to that, then then we’re better off, right. And I get people that get hung up around, you know, well, you have to use if you want to be lean, you have to use, you know, tools that were created by Toyota, you know, years ago, and you have to use the terms and you have, you know, well, do you really, I mean, you know, again, it’s, I would say no, I would say you have to meet your client or meet your customer, your inter whether it’s an internal or external customer, meet them where they are, and figure out what’s going to work for them. And I don’t care what you call it at the end of the day, you know,

 

27:46

absolutely. You can as long as you have Sharpies and sticky notes you’ll be just fine. You can do

 

Patrick Adams  27:53

that’s right. I wish I would have bought stock and post it notes years ago when I when I knew I was going to be doing this but you know, I use so many post it notes. It’s crazy.

 

28:04

And now we have Miro and Vizio and all those things that Oh, I know.

 

Patrick Adams  28:09

Any Do you have any favorite digital tools that you use Trina?

 

28:15

I do like Miro. I love the interactivity of it where people can all be touching it and engaging at the same time. That that’s big, that’s quickly became one of my favorites during COVID. Yeah,

 

Patrick Adams  28:26

yeah, it is good. I remember starting out before we had any of that, and just trying to figure out how to use an iPad or use FaceTime to bring you know, people and other sites into a meeting. And now it’s progressed so much. But I do think that making sure you’re utilizing the whatever digital tool you choose, it needs to be something that people are able to interact with and understand and you know, know what’s happening behind the scenes, per se. Too many times those digital solutions go down and then people are like, have no idea what to do because they didn’t really know or understand what was happening in the background. Right.

 

29:09

We’re talking, we still have we receive lots of you know, it being just as long as the thing that ends up on a shelf. So, you know, the digital tools are wonderful, but people still have to know how to access them.

 

Patrick Adams  29:27

Absolutely. We talked about this earlier, Trina. As we kind of start to close here. I want to go back to what we started the conversation with around you know, the the skills that are necessary for Lean practitioners or lean leaders. You know, we talked about the importance of listening. We talked about the importance of having people skills of being able to communicate any what would you say is a necessary skill, like those are all I mean, I don’t know maybe you call it Consider all those necessary but anything that you would say this one skill is absolutely hands down necessary must have if you’re a Lean leader of any sort,

 

30:11

oh, to come up with one is really tough. I think the first one I would say, is empathy, being able to put yourself in someone else’s shoes and understand where they’re coming from. I mean, that’s really kind of where we’re headed with gimble walks, like, that’s why we do them, but taking it a step further and really be able to being able to put yourself in the shoes of the operator. So empathy is my first one. And then the other one that I would say, is coaching. Very often, especially if we’ve come up through the ranks of an organization or of a role. As leaders, we tend to believe we know the answer, right? And we’re just kind of walking our teams through getting us to a point that we already know. And often we don’t take into consideration that we may not know the answer, that it could be something very new and novel that our teams are going to come up with. So with that, I would say, coaching toward problem solving, being able to ask the right questions, not necessarily give the right answer.

 

Patrick Adams  31:17

And I love that that’s that’s another really important skill to have is, you know, as leaders, a lot of times people are promoted into those positions, because they were really good at their job. And so they they have all the answers, are they they they feel like they have to have all the answers. So when they’re asked a question from one of their team members, they’re immediately throwing the answers out. And there’s that skill that you just mentioned, the ability to hold back to bite your tongue and hold back and not give a solution or an answer. But ask the right questions to help your team members come up with the answers or the solutions that’s developing an army of problem solvers rather than just one sole problem solver that’s running around like a chicken with his or her head cut off trying to get the job done. Right. Got it. You

 

32:03

got and it’s a skill it multiplies. If you start asking questions, and team members are going to start asking questions, and those team members are going to start asking questions. And it really just builds that, you know, that creative muscle that innovative model that problem solving muscle and everybody benefits. So

 

Patrick Adams  32:19

true. So true. As we close any, if I were to ask you maybe about your favorite experience, you know, in coaching, if you had a personal story or something that happened to you, maybe someone was coaching you or you were coaching someone else, and you and you asked a few questions that helped lead them down the right path? What would any stories come to mind of of, you know, personal stories that you’ve been involved with? of change?

 

32:52

Favorite personal? Yeah, favorite personal story, this actually is not a corporate story at all. But I actually had a coaching client who was a semi pro wrestler. Coming up different, right, who was coming out on a, you know, kind of a title belt sort of thing. And we were talking about what would help them be successful and kind of prepare for this for this bout. And so they were, you know, talking about all the things, you know, carbs and protein and training and all that. And I said, okay, but what’s going to help you mentally prepare for this bout? And went through? Quickly? You know, you wouldn’t necessarily think this would be the answer. But you know, big burly wrestler, the solution was yoga, going into a completely different practice. And the struggle was mentally settling their mind to be able to think about this upcoming bout. And so you know, all the life things were still going on. And so what they learned was that they needed to take up a kind of a mindfulness or a wellness practice to help Senator themselves before they could go into the fight. And so that was one of those things that was just so fascinating for me as the coach, that is not where I thought the conversation was gonna go. But it is really telling for us in organizations as well, right, to the point that we were just making sometimes we think we know the answer. And it’s nothing like what we expect.

 

Patrick Adams  34:33

Yeah. Because you could have wanted to, you could have said to this to him, like, Well, I think you should, you know, take maybe spend an extra 30 minutes a day in your training, you know, that would make you better or, you know, maybe you should run, you know, a mile a day or do you mean, you could have gave lots of recommendations of what you think maybe you would have helped them but at the end of the day you asked him what You think you should do and he came up with this idea. And now it now it makes it makes me start thinking about kata a little bit where I’d be like, well, let’s try that. Because we don’t know what the result of that will be. Until we try it right. So could we figure out a way to experiment with that? You know, maybe do some yoga sessions for a few weeks, and then, you know, look, see, look and see what the results of that may be. You know, I don’t know how you would measure mental you know how your mental being is in that way. But let’s figure it out. Right. Exactly. Love it. It worked well in the title. Yes, I like it. That’s gonna be here. Congratulate congratulations to that gentleman. So nice job. Trina. If someone is interested to reach out to you around, you know, personal coaching or business consulting, how would they get ahold of you? What would be the best way for them to to connect with you?

 

35:54

Oh, great question. Thank you. She at Marian holden.com Or you can find through our website internet.com

 

Patrick Adams  36:00

Perfect and we will put those links into the show notes as well. But definitely happy for you know, if anyone is interested, again, reach out to us or go to the show notes. We can give you the contacts for Trina Trina, it’s been great to have you on I love the conversation. I love the work that you’re doing in in multiple different industries and even in person personal coaching as as everyone heard. So thank you for that. And again, thank you for being on the show. Appreciate your time.

 

Trina Poston  36:29

Excellent. Thanks, Patrick. Thanks so much for having me.