Patrick Adams  

Welcome to the Lean solutions podcast where we discuss business solutions to help listeners develop and implement action plans for true Lean process improvement. I am your host, Patrick Adams. Hello and welcome. Our guest today is Gareth Shaw. Gareth is the President for UK and Europe of care, the first global network of physician only platforms for programmatic messaging. I’m excited to hear a little bit more about that. But his background includes experience in building high performing work teams and implementing strategic plans to facilitate the growth of the organizations that he’s worked at. Welcome to the show, Gareth.

Gareth Shaw

Thank you for having me, Patrick. Glad to be here.

Patrick Adams  

Yeah. And you are in the UK? Correct.

Gareth Shaw  

I am indeed currently set in Buckinghamshire about 50 miles outside of London, not too far from Oxford. Okay,

Patrick Adams  

Very nice. So in just reading through your background and doing a little bit of my own personal research on UI, I noticed quite a bit of experience in high performing work teams. And I’m excited to kind of dive into that. And then you know, we’ll get into some programmatic messaging and marketing in the pharma space, which is where your, the vast amount of your experiences. But before we get there, let’s talk about high performing work teams. For those that are listening. You know, could you just tell us maybe what your definition of, you know, high performance is when it comes to teams?

Gareth Shaw  

Yeah, it was definitely quite a timely question, because I’ve recently redefined what high performance means to me. Basically, I was listening to a podcast the other day, and I love reading, listening to podcasts like this for reading books, and just assimilating knowledge. And I, you know, like picking up those gems of wisdom. I was listening to the high performance podcast. So a good one, if you ever wanted to find and question every interview, they did ask the individual whether it be a sportsman or entrepreneur, how do you define high performance, I think they were doing with Phil Neville is an ex Manchester United football player. And he gave a definition that really resonated with me, which I have since shamelessly shamelessly plagiarized and made, what am I sort of core values. And for me, I think I’ve been doing this for a while, but now I couldn’t never articulate it. And for me, high performance is doing the best job you possibly can, in the moment of time where you are, with what you have available to you. Now, whether that’s you been an individual, whether you’ve made a team, I just love it, because part of that can be you know, you want to strive to be better, you want to know more you want to, you know, be in a different position, in a month’s time, sure. But wherever you are, whoever you are, you know, time you know, your appointed time, and you have, you’re in a situation, and you have what you have, and you need to get on with it. And if you kind of get down and think, ah, you know, like, Wouldn’t it be great if I had this or I really wish X you know, that that isn’t high performance you know, wherever you are, you know, however you got there is a different story. But wherever you are, is where you are, and you just got to get on with it. And if you want to build like that hype performance mentality, you just accept, this is where I am, this is where I want to be. And I’m going to go use what I’ve got, and I’m going to get there, I’m going to find a way, you know, you have to blow you have to blow through walls, you’ll have to pivot, you have to do things, you know, you know, on that journey, you’ll get to different places and have more things, but that for me, I thought it’s brilliant because it’s it’s just applicable to any situation, whether it be team or individual. So sure, I shamelessly stole that from Phil Neville, the English football. I love that.

Patrick Adams  

It’s a great definition to think about. And as you said it could apply to an individual, high performing individual or a high performing team. When it comes to teams. What do you think would be, you know, in your experience, what are some of the possible challenges that would keep a team from becoming high performing, you know, the things that are holding them back that are not allowing them to be the best team that they can possibly be?

Gareth Shaw  

Yeah, such a great question. So I’m a sucker for quotes, love, love inspirational quotes, I got written down all of my office and various presentations. And that will meet there’s a Peter Drucker quote that springs to mind, only three things happen naturally in organization, friction in organizations, friction, confusion and underperformance. Everything else requires leadership. And I absolutely love that because, again, you know, wherever, you know, like the, you know, do the best job you have when you add that whenever I’m feeling overwhelmed or it’s not working people aren’t getting it. I think back to that quote, and it’s like, everything else requires that leadership, it’s people need to if a team for team to be successful, that team need to have a common understanding and of what success looks like then to middle line against that, you know, the classic, you know, everyone on the rowing boat needs to be in time rowing in the same direction. Yes, you know, and row is a great example. You know, they know what they need. Do like we all row in time, the same direction, and we go really fast. Same with everything else. So, for me, the most important thing with the team is to spend time outlining success. And do it in a way where the team members feel invested in that success. And the decision process to come up with that definition. You know, it’s very easy sometimes to be in the ivory tower, say, this is what we’re going to do. And so sometimes, you know, you kind of have to do that, but where, wherever possible, you know, when you’re building strategy, you know, pull the people from your team in, you know, one thing, you know, if you do anything in isolation, no matter how smart you are, you’re not, you know, infallible, and, you know, getting more diverse opinions and views. And insight is the best way to come up with the best idea. But, yeah, get that, that common definition of success. And then make sure everyone buys into it. You know, and if people don’t buy into it, you know, that, that’s fine. But you know, try and build a kind of culture a trust. And I love when my favorite or business authors, Pat Lencioni, and I love, he gives this definition of trust, trust isn’t I trust you to do your job, you know, that I’m paying you to do your job. Trust is, you know, being able to be vulnerable. So, you know, if you mess up at work, it’s like, yeah, my bad, I did that, you know, I, you know, to failure, I can own it, I’m going to learn from it, I’m going to do better, I think you want you want that trusted environment where everyone can challenge, you know, whether it be the intern who’s in the meeting, because they deserve to be there, and they have an insight can challenge the highest paid person in that room. And then you can have, like, you know, healthy conflict in terms of you can debate ideas. Yeah, at the end of day, someone, you know, it’s gonna, someone’s gonna make a decision, you know, whether it be the group or someone has to come in and say no, like, we’ve had enough time we’re gonna do this, once everyone’s had their opportunity to put it out there, you know, where everyone stands. It’s much easier to get people to get that kind of commitment. I think Lencioni talks about trust, conflict, then you get buy in, when you have buy in, you have accountability, and then the results just happen. So I love that kind. I think he calls it The Five Dysfunctions of a Team, I love that kind of pyramid, everything’s built on trust. People feel, you know, it’s okay to be vulnerable. It’s okay to challenge. You know, you can have that debate around ideas. Everyone has their say. And then when everyone’s had their, say, the group can commit, and there’s no, there’s no people just silently, not in thinking it’s a stupid idea. And you know, they, they’re gonna sabotage it or best, they’re just not going to help you know, where they stand. And if you know where they stand, you can kind of mitigate that. But okay, I know, you didn’t think this was the best idea. But I need you to commit to it. Are you in Scripture? Right now? You know. And there’s another great, great quote in that book, it’s like, you know, if you aren’t willing to commit to that definition of success, that’s okay. You know, we can still be friends, but you probably shouldn’t work here anymore. Because if you’re, you know, where you want to take your career isn’t aligned with where this business wants to go in terms of success. And the bill that, let’s help you find that their job is, you know, let’s not let things get sour, you know, I’ll help, I’ll give you a good reference. But you know, if you have that understanding, and that openness, that’s how you can inspire people and get everyone rowing in the same direction. You know, they’ll grow cliche, you know, the results will follow.

Patrick Adams  

Yeah, and I love that you mentioned The Five Dysfunctions of a Team, because that’s a powerful book, and a really a great starting point for anyone that’s listening in that, that’s thinking, you know, how do I create a high performing work team? I think that’s a great, you know, first place to to learn a little bit about, you know, those dysfunctions and how you can you know, take action against those, but it’s not,

Gareth Shaw  

It’s a must read for anyone I hire. I really, okay, that book, yes. If I’ve got a meeting on this, this week, I’ve just just hired my first two people in the team. And our first team meeting this week, yeah, we get it, we’re gonna, we’re gonna open the meeting talking about that book, and how they need to read it this month, because that’s the ethos of how we’ll do everything. I

Patrick Adams  

I love it, I think that’s great. And creating a high performing work team is not something that is going to happen overnight, it’s going to take a lot of work. And it’s going to, you know, as you said, you know, building trust is something that’s necessary. And it’s, it’s, it’s going to take work, it’s not going to happen, it’s going to take a little bit more than just reading a book too. So there’s going to be, you know, obviously, the awareness and then from there, there’s got to be action that’s taken over time to create that team. But you also need to have the right leadership in place to and so I’m curious to hear your experience in from a leadership perspective and leading a high performing work team, you know, what does it take to be what is whatever the right characteristics, what does the leader look like that’s leading a high performing team.

Gareth Shaw  

So I would say you need to be, you need to be really, you need to be humble. I’m a big advocate of, you know, any anyone in a anyone in a job where they’re managing people is a manager, you know, the people who follow you, you know, the ones that get to call you a leader, no one can self declare, I’m the leader of this organization, you can say the CEO or the president or you know, the director, but you have to go in thinking, you know, I need to inspire these people to follow me. And then you become a leader. So I think it starts with, with humility, being humble, you know, that your job is I see my job as a leader as being an org organizer. There’s, there’s various puzzle pieces, you know, that I need to put together to scale, scale, the business, and the most important part puzzle pieces are the people within that team, because they’re not just, you know, like, assets like, capital or technology, you know, that they’re thinking, you know, they have opinions, and it’s pulling that together. So you have to, I have opinions, but my opinions are no more important than then anyone else is on my team, you know, on the proviso that backed up with date data, and that they’re sensible, you know, what, there’s a again, another great, I can’t remember who said this one, but you want strong opinions that are weakly held, not weak opinions that are strongly held.

Patrick Adams  

Mm hmm. Powerful. I love that quote. That’s a good one. So tell us a little bit more about doc care, because people that are listening in, you know, may or may know of Doc care, have, you know, maybe not give us a little bit of background on what, what doc care does. Before we go into the next question.

Gareth Shaw  

Cool. So we’re, we’re, we’re a technology startup, we’re about two years old, we started off in India, we are also very active in the US. And my role is to launch it in Europe, and we’re actually co complete and ready to go as of January this year, which is great. So we really spend, you know, in a nutshell, we are there to help life science brands. So whether they be pharma or medical device brands, better interact, and engage physicians, digitally, you can call it marketing. But at the end of the day, you know, physicians need to be continually, you know, part of their role as a physician is to continue medical education, they need to make sure they know, you know, if you qualified as a doctor, 40 years ago, probably a lot of things that are very different. But you need to be up on that stuff. So you can, you know, provide the best care possible. And on the other side, you’ve got farm life, medical device companies and, you know, innovating to, you know, improve therapies and treatments, and it’s about connecting those two things. So we do that in a programmatic advertising environment.

Patrick Adams  

That’s great. So how I’d be curious now to hear a little bit more about the the pharma marketing space, you know, just thinking about the pandemic, and what has happened over this last, you know, year and a half or so, what how has the pandemic changed the the pharma marketing space, from your perspective,

Gareth Shaw  

So, traditionally, it was very much dominated by sales reps. So, the pharma brands would have sales, you know, an army of sales reps that would go out, charge up and down, whatever country they’re repping. And we meet with, you know, secondary and primary care physicians, and other healthcare practitioners and basically educate them on hey, you know, we’ve just released X new drug or ex new therapy, more ethical than than the previous one here, the clinical, you know, study data and all that kind of stuff. And it very much rat based now, as the world’s become busier and more frantic, the ability for reps to get into see doctors were starting to decline Anyway, before the pandemic. You know, doctors were like, you know, oh, you know, I haven’t got time, blah, blah, blah, I’m busy working. And then the pandemic happened, and that excelerate massively because then it wasn’t a case of I don’t have time, it’s why physically, you know, I can’t see you. So what happened, you know, that that was happening, and the pandemic accelerated it. And then another thing that sort of, you know, the other element was the rise of digital. So if you just think about how much of you know, all lives is everyday consumers or patients is digital, you know, and where, you know, my, my, I watch my fi just came out, you know, we’re talking on Zoom now, the amount of digital platforms and tools, websites for us to make our lives easier, it’s just exploding, and that’s only going one way, right. So that kind of did you know, the Internet of Things. Digital Revolution is also happening and that, you know, there’s a huge explosion in the healthcare industry in terms of, you know, the electronic health record, track health records, medical records, pulling all that together, you know, elearning sites, web because it cetera. So those two things have, you know, we’re, we’re on a path, and we’re going and then the pandemic came in, and it absolutely sort of torpedoed every industry. But you know, in healthcare, it’s all getting really hard for reps. But then there’s much more opportunity digitally. And, you know, one of the big wins to, you know, the big one telehealth, you know, sort of teladoc, push doc Babylon over here, you know, they were some of the big winners, because suddenly, you know, seeing a doctor over a video conference, you know, became became the way to do things and the genies out of the bottle, it’s not going back. So they were, they were two of the things that initially happened. And one of the more interesting things that I’ve noticed, now, outside is sort of the physicians that are on the frontline, because, you know, their frontline in the hospital dealing with the pandemic, you know, they are, they’re doing a sterling job, and lots of stuff, you know, and heart goes out to all those people most respect, but some of the more secondary care physicians are now in a position where they’re not seeing as many patients or they’re seeing them the remotely, and they actually have more time to actually use digital resources to to, you know, to go about their continuing medical education and things like that. So, yeah, I think it, what we were doing, it kind of really resonated, and then the and we were born just as the pandemic came in, so the idea came before the pandemic, and you know, right, that, you know, there’s this, there’s a market, we can disrupt it, you know, this is going to be the way of doing things. And then the pandemic happened, and it was kind of a blessing in that it really strengthened, you know, their narrative behind our business. But then also, you know, try, try launching a business, you know, it’s now in three regions with the global pandemic, you know, I’ve been with the business for I joined in August last year, I fit only Well, I’ve hired two people, and then I physically met, I’ve only met one other person in the business and about 75 of us. You know, normally, I joined the business and I’d flown over to India, I’ve probably been to New York by now. And I’ve met a large percentage of the people, but I know that I feel like I know them really well, when I meet them for the first time, it isn’t gonna be weird, because I spend a lot of time talking digitally. So definitely a good time to be in the space we’re in with the pandemic, but a very challenging time as well. Because, you know, you have to adapt the way you work, you know, it prime example, you know, in terms of process and high performance teams, we’d love to, you know, been in a room together as a leadership team to three day off site, let’s let’s throw the strategy together. We haven’t been able to do that, you know, we’ve had to break it down, do it digitally. Find new ways to do those kind of things?

Patrick Adams  

Sure. What are some examples of some of the things that you’ve done to try to build to maintain and build that high performing team digitally? Are there any specific tools that you’re using? Or any tips or tricks for anybody that’s listening in?

Gareth Shaw  

Yeah, well, I don’t, yeah, I can tell you, I can tell you guys tell you what I’ve been doing. And for the most part, it’s not rocket science. And I, I had a little bit of a sneaky advantage as well, because for the last my previous role, for the last three years, I’d actually been working remotely from the UK, run it managing a team of about 20 people, most of what I think 18 of them sat in the same office in New York. So I was in quite a good position in terms of being a remote leader. So tools like Slack, or Microsoft Teams, are invaluable, regular check-ins. So don’t underestimate the power of having, you know, 15 1015 minutes stand up meeting with your team every morning. Because, you know, in the pandemic, we don’t have that water cooler or kitchen chat, you know, that you normally have. So having that 15 minute check in every morning at five minutes, just to just to catch up with whatever we did last night I did over the weekend. But you know, you know, every Monday, the team and I will jump on our 15 minute check in and each member of the team will say wow, what a three big fit the three big things you’re going to get done this week, or you’re going to focus on this week that moved the business towards our quarterly goal, our 12 month goal. Because we’re all super busy, there’s so much going on, but each time like pick three things where if you do those, you’re gonna be really happy. And you know, Wednesday, we’ll say how are you getting on challenges, you know, bounce any ideas off. And on Friday, we talked about how we did you know, we do the whole traffic light, green, yellow, red, and some stuff gets punted to next week and some stuff gets green, but it’s really, I find it really valuable because I get a lot out of it because suddenly someone will pipe up. Have you thought about x with your challenge and I can do that the other way. So yeah, like using Slack teams and just having a regular check in and making part of that check ins just focus on the big ticket items that move the business forward. I just developed that kind of cadence around discussing those big things. Because a year sounds like a long time. But it’s only four quarters, and there’s only 13 weeks in a quarter. And before, you know, what are we now we’re coming to the second third week of January. Time moves very quickly. And if you’re not focused on those things, and building that cadence, you’ll do busy work, particularly when everyone’s in different places. Right. So I, my, my top tip would be get pull your team together, you know, 15 minutes a day. And just just keep that alignment and discussion going around, you know, coming back to what I said earlier about success. Yeah,

Patrick Adams  

yeah. And also, obviously, the things that you talked about are key. And you also mentioned, you know, just just to check in with everybody, you know, the those that’s so important right now, especially if we’re in remote spaces, and, you know, even from a personal check in, and one of the things that we do is we kick off our Monday morning meetings with, give me one business good that happened last week, and one personal good. That happened last week. And so it, you know, again, it just, you talk about building trust, and just having empathy for your team, and just understanding what it takes, you know, to really put together a good team, you, it’s not always about business, it’s it also, we also need to care about each other. We’re all human, we’re real people, you know. And so understanding that as a leader and knowing that your team may need some time to, you know, decompress from the weekend, or, you know, whatever, but just having a simple conversation about hey, what’s one great thing that happened in your personal life last week? I just think it’s such a powerful question.

Gareth Shaw  

Definitely. And I sort of build another thing that she one of the things I do with some of our standard meetings is always put some sort of random question in there, like what’s the law? You know, what album are you listening to, you know, what album or playlist are you listening to right now? Or what, you know, what’s the favorite movie? You’ve seen the three because I find it kind of, like you said, decompression, because it’s very easy for people to let like the word you know, working from home, they can easily slip into having no boundaries. And you know, that reminding, you know, people like hey, there’s a life outside of work. And another one, I’m a big advocate of as well is set, set those boundaries, if I’m going to work late, or make sure that I, you know, turn off my teams, because I’m working late to get something done. I’m there somewhere, someone really needs me, everyone’s my whatsapp number. But you know, like, teams, I’m there, the contracted hours, if you need me, I’m available. But but at the same time, make sure you you have those those those boundaries, you know, I encourage, you know, we were talking earlier about you know, get get into the gym, midday, I encourage everyone listening today to get that release, and it’s available to you where you are right now, you know, go do it, you know, it’ll it will free your mind to be more present. And more, more in the moment when you’re back at your desk, as opposed to don’t don’t wake up, crack your laptop, sit there for 12 hours, eat some food, get the lap, you know that? You know, that’s not healthy for anyone.

Patrick Adams  

Right? I agree. 100%. So earlier in the introduction, I mentioned that, you know, Doc care is a physician only platform for programmatic messaging, and so on to just talk to our listeners about what programmatic messaging or programmatic marketing is, can you give them just an overview of that?

Gareth Shaw  

Yes, sir. Sure. So this is a general definition of programmatic marketing, it basically just refers to technology that uses automation. So, you know, you know, it’s using programs. So traditionally, you might, you know, gone to buy an advert in a print publication, and you go, hey, you know, you the publications about cars, I’m a car, man, you know, it fits, but, you know, if you’re trying to advertise a Porsche, or, you know, a Ford, people who are interested in that McCarl magazine, probably interested in both, but how do you know, you know, you’re having to buy the ad, and you’re getting a certain amount of wastage. So as things have become digital, and going online, and you know, the internet is the data is flowing, it’s become possible for us to use data signals. So imagine now you’re on a website around about, you know, as a car enthusiast, and you know, in the market for a new car, and you know, you’re very successful, you’re very affluent, Porsche, want to talk to you, as opposed to you, you know, still doing well, but you’re more in the market for a fast forward. What we can do now in real time programmatic is we can understand those data signals. So not just the context, but the audience. And we can put those two together in real time. So you know, if you’re on a website, that website will, you know, you’ll click on it’ll begin to load if you’ve got fast internet load really quickly. And typically, any ad slots that haven’t been pre sold, or auctioned in real time, so as that page loads in 100 milliseconds or less, so here’s an advert on this page. The context of page X, the audience, we know x about, you know, why about them. And then you can put that and that’s super tailored and super surgical. So that, you know, programmatic advertising, not new on the consumer side, it’s probably around 1015 years getting really sophisticated in the stuff that can do really personalized content and messaging that you see online. And, but you know, maybe I’m blind to it. So I’m in the industry, but I definitely have some sort of banner blindness. I don’t see the adverts anymore, but I will, I will see the good ones. Because I’ll be doing something, and something will pop up. And you know, it’s an ad for its marketing message, Bobby, like, wow, that’s super relevant to me. And the frame of mind I’m in right now. You know, and I’ll get, I’ll engage with it, and it will happen, and that’s what programmatic marketing allows us to do. We’re harnessing the ability to use artificial intelligence algorithms, machine learning, and all the data, you know, in a compliant way that’s swimming around to deliver better experiences to consumers. And in Doceree case positioned

Patrick Adams  

Very nice. And you just mentioned consumer experience. And you know, obviously, in the continuous improvement world, we talk about value add for the customer, in what ways do you feel like programming, programmatic solutions are improving the health care of the pharma industry,

Gareth Shaw  

I’ll give you one of the killer use cases that we’re seeing in the US at the moment. So we were able, one of the strengths of our platform is we work with both we call them endemic endemic health websites, so anywhere in medical journals, to your medical education, networking sites, any kind of website where a doctor may go, and we know that audiences there, we also work with what we call point of care platforms. So they could be like a telemedicine platform on the physician side or electronic health record. So the example I’ll give you is around electronic health records. So sure, in the States, it’s much like is here in the UK, when you go and see your your doctor, they’re usually chatting to you from behind a computer screen, and they’re taking various notes about you know why you’ve come to see them, and they’re typing away into your electronic into the electronic health record, we’re able to to work with those, those platforms, so that we can get signals in real time about what’s happening. So it may be that when a patient goes in, we know the signal is given off of who that patient’s insurers are. And then you know, if the doctor then prescribed a certain treatment or therapy that isn’t covered by that patient’s insurer or their plan. Again, those two signals are sort of there we can we can we can pick them up in real time. Now, the pharma industry, the pharma brands, currently that psycho is 10 billion or 20 billion, a huge amount of money that they put into coupons and copay cards each year, to subsidize prescriptions in certain instances. And I think 89% of that money that gets written off by the firebrand, they you know, it’s spent, it’s gone into the p&l, it’s gone, you know, they, they want to put that out there. So they can generate, you know, the sales volume doesn’t get used, they just, you know, they don’t get picked up. And that is basically free money for a patient. And for a physician, it’s higher adherence, because if I’m a physician, I want to make sure I’m prescribing, you know, what I think is going to be the most ethical treatment for my patient. And I want to make sure that they follow through with that prescription, because that’s how you know, they’re going to get the outcome I want them to get, but if I’m worried that they’re not going to fulfill the prescription, they have to pay or they’re going to try and you know, they’re not going to fulfill repeat prescription or take a half dose to try and spin it out, you know that that’s a worry to the physician. So paying for the patients that you know, they’re not getting the outcome or having to outlay their money. And the pharma brand, you know, is trying to tell that it will happen. So, you know, in this scenario, patient you come in, I’m with insurance, why prescribe medication x, it’s not covered, we can real time surface a message physician, Here’s a coupon or a copay, con, get, you know, when you give them the script, give them this at the same time. And then suddenly, you know, the patient’s happier, the doctors got more confidence, the brand put that coupon out for a reason they’re getting them out, which is part of their strategy. So in terms of the the life science company, the physician and the patient, everyone benefits through that interaction, that only possible to the fact that, you know, we’re now using electronic health records. And, you know, the data is available to sort of pick up in real time decisions and then put a highly relevant clinical message in, wherever, you know, we don’t want to, it’s not about bombarding these platforms with adverts. It’s not what we’re here to do. You know, we want to be very surgical, and we want to put the right clinical message in front of the right physician at the right time, so they can make the most informed decision about delivering the best treatment or therapy.

Patrick Adams  

That is amazing. I just love technology, I mean, the more and more that I learn about the types of things that are happening out there, and how different companies are leveraging, you know, technical tools that are out there or developing their own building just, it just amazes me how you know, how many things are happening and how quickly it’s happening. As you said earlier, I have to imagine, though, that, you know, just with pharma laws and regulations and things like that, that there’s got to be challenges that you guys face. How does care deal with those, you know, stringent pharma laws and regulations that are out there?

Gareth Shaw  

It’s a great question, I kind of approach this in the Spirit, the Spirit is sort of, you know, your podcast and the, you know, the, the process and simplification. First, you have to understand it, whether you’re talking about HIPAA in the US or GDPR, in Europe or various regulations, there is a lot for for pharma for me to start with something quite a simple offering. So, you know, we’ve been quite deliberate in starting with something where we think it adds value, but it’s also quite simple, transparent and easy to understand. Because it’s one thing to say, you know, you understand the law, you’re legally compliant, here’s a huge document of legalese, about why we’re safe to work with, but the bar to entry isn’t saying you’re legally compliant. And you know, writing a load of legal mumbo jumbo, it’s about convincing customers that you’re legally compliant. And, you know, pharma brands, in particular, have compliance teams that are very risk averse, because they’re highly regulated, and they don’t want to get fine. So the bar to entry is created simple, easy to understand what convinces that team. And by doing that, start simple. Make it very easy for those people to understand, we want to get the marketing team, digital teams excited. But we also want the compliance team to understand exactly what we’re doing. So we can start building trust and confidence. And from there, you know, we can let you know, we can layer sophistication onto the product. But if we, you know, if we came into what we’re doing right now, we could sit in a room, and we could come up with right, we’ve got this killer solution, we’re going to take everything the marketing industry has learned in the last 1015 years programmatic, and we’re going to do it all right away. For physician professional marketing, no one would understand it, no one would want to buy it, everyone would see it as a massive risk. So for me, you know, peel it back, come up with like, what, what’s what’s the simple solution as the most value, and then take that kernel and layer and build on it and build that confidence and trust and education, you know, become become a true a true partner, you know, whether it be you know, I supply source or demand source, whoever we’re working with, partner with them to take them on that journey, you know, we want to build, get it 3d cliche, but you know, we want partners, not clients,

Patrick Adams  

There’s so much value in what you said about keeping it simple in the beginning, and then building on it and, you know, creating the layers or the complexity after but starting out simple, I want to bring that full circle back around to, you know, our beginning conversation around high performing work teams, and just thinking about, you know, how to kick things off, for those that are listening, that maybe are thinking to themselves, like I want to build a high performing work team. I just think that starting out with some simple things, like we talked about, you know, introducing them to the five dysfunctions of a team, you know, something simple, just to kick things off, and then, you know, build on that, you know, after so just as we close today, Gareth, any any thoughts last thoughts about just keeping things simple around building a high performing team, maybe a another quote, to close us out, or even a, you know, a simple step that that a leader can take, if they want to build a high performing work team, anything at all that that you would suggest to the listeners,

Gareth Shaw  

I’d probably well reiterate my point around, define, you know, have a very clear aligned definition of success for the business, the department, and each individual in that department. So everyone knows, you know, I, I use a tool called a job scorecard to basically break someone’s job down into KPIs and need to deliver, and then give them the tools to track how they’re doing. So they don’t have to ask you if they’re doing a good job, they know that they’re doing a good job because they’re, they’re hitting their you know, they’re leading and lagging metrics. When they talk to you, they’re talking to you about challenges or thoughts and ideas about you know, I’m doing all my everything’s green, but I want to make it super grid. So going back to that, that clearly defined success and then breaking that success down into its constituent parts is a pyramid throughout the business. You know, so everyone, everyone knows, today, I’m going to do X and it’s going to help add value here and they can see that ladder so that and then so the there’s a Gary Player quote, I really love and it was the heart the heart kind of is the harder the more I practice or the harder I work, the luckier I get. And I’ve kind of adapted that little bit to the business world. I find that the more I learn, the luckier I become. Kids. Yeah, don’t the moment you think you know everything and you shut off and you try and do things, the way you’ve always done it, is the moment you start to go backwards, or best case, you’re right, you slow down. And you know, you can’t keep up with innovation and everything that’s going on. So yeah, keep an open mind and always learning every failure is an opportunity to learn to do things better.

Patrick Adams  

That’s right. That’s right. lifelong learners. Love it. Garrett, this has been great. I love learning more about the, you know, the work that Doc care is doing and programmatic marketing, and just the improvements that you know, are happening that are continuing to better the experience for anyone that’s, you know, involved with healthcare in the pharma industry. So thank you for the work that you guys do. What if anybody wants to learn more about doc care? Do you know what you guys do? Or, you know, connect with you guys? Where would they go?

Gareth Shaw  

Probably just go to our website. So doceree.com, it’s felt, spelt, D O C, E, R ee.com. Docere is the Latin root word for doctor. And we put an extra E on the end of the Stanford engagement. So wow, we’ve got a cool startup icebreaker name.

Patrick Adams  

Very nice. And we’ll make sure that we drop that link into the show notes. So if anybody is interested to go out and check out the website, you can find that right in the show notes. Gareth. It’s been great to have you on the show. I appreciate you being here and just talking with our listeners about high performing work teams and the work that you guys are doing in the programmatic marketing industry. So thank you.

Gareth Shaw

Thanks for having me. I really enjoyed it. Thank you very much.

Patrick Adams  

Thanks so much for tuning in to this episode of the lean solutions podcast. If you haven’t done so already, please be sure to subscribe. This way you’ll get updates as new episodes become available. If you feel so inclined. Please give us a review. Thank you so much.

Transcribed by https://otter.ai